Very questionable hand

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
Those with the draws to outdraw you would cold call the raise anyway. Flush draws, OESD's (most call with gutshots), and top pairs aren't folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

A4 and A5 will (correctly) call one flop bet but probably not two cold. And don't tell me nobody would have coldcalled pre-flop with those hands because we know people at this level routinely do so.

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to hear more discussion on check raising versus betting out and hoping for a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the check raise, if he bets out and UTG raises, the next guy is still getting 7.5-1 on his call, Which I guess might fold an inside straight draw. Otherwise even bottom pair with any kicker is getting odds to take one off.

I think he is better suited to build a pot here and look for a value checkraise while he has the probable best hand.

I suppose he could do the wait till the turn to raise thing here, but that would mean trying to check raise the turn.

His position sucks, I would have done this the same way on every street.

[PokerIsLife]

Some poster already mentioned this, but bottom 2 isn't a slow playing hand. I believe it's better to protect this hand as it was raised preflop and maximizing your chances to win the pot is better than to build it up even further. Besides, if you bet and pfr raises, it gives you a chance to charge those flush and straight draws 3 or even 4 bets on the flop. But you definitely want to chase those TPNK out of the hand in case the board pairs their kicker and you're SOL.

[hustalasta]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to hear more discussion on check raising versus betting out and hoping for a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I go for the Bet and hope for the immediate raise. Bottom 2 pair is vulnerable, the pot is already big. I want to chase out anyon with holdings like A4,A5,A3,A2, (maybe even K5,K4), 78 (wont get 67 out, not looking to see 63 or 68), pocket pairs & any players that may have paired their low cards J4s, J5s, 75s, 64s (all fish worthy even against a raise).

With bottom two pair you are vunerable to the 3rd flop card or turn card pairing on the river and counterfeiting one of your pairs.

[btspider]

i bet this flop and hope for the raise behind. I'm not sure if AK/AJ/JJ/TT will bet the flop at all, which sets up a potentially disastrous check-through.

you can't protect this hand too well, if you are raised behind, you are likely facing AA/KK/AQ/KQ/QQ, but you fare well against this range and can 3-bet for value.. notice that any of these hands pass ours on if another Q comes, so any talk of folding a Q is useless.

also, if you bet, a flush may raise for a free card/value, and you can 3-bet them, perhaps trapping UTG's missed hands or folding a hand with 2 backdoor draws and runner-runner overs.

so i think a flop bet is safer and has more potential to build a large pot (with fewer players) than a check-raise. having a read on UTG would help though. i tend to keep the initiative in hands like this and steer clear of disastrous check-throughs.

[droolie]

Bet out. It's the only way to protect your hand and can often build a much bigger pot than C/R. A C/R can often be checked through which is much worse then everyone including UTG just calling. In this situation the best case scenario includes betting out. Since he raised pre-flop, UTG will probably raise your bet no matter what he has. This can get players to fold or they pay the same two bets as a C/R. However betting then gives you a chance to reraise when it comes back around. If UTG then reraises, you have monster pot.