NL Hand at NYC Card Club

[DoubleDown]

new player to NL ring game- any comments regarding this play are welcome

10 person Table. have been at table for 1 hour. image is tight. played 2 hands first hour. Raised A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] from MP to 6xBB, and picked up blinds. Called pre-flop raise of 5xBB after 2 players with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the button. flush draw on flop failed to materialize.

1st hand of Hour 2: dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in SB. 6 limpers to me. i call the BB. BB checks. 8 to the flop.

Flop:K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
i bet 5xBB (stack size=65xBB). all folds to player in MP who raises to 12xBB (he has me covered). everyone else folds to me. i call.

Note: i read villain not to be a strong player, as 10 mins prior to this hand, he called a bet of 5xBB with Ace high, after board showed 3clubs(pot size approx 5xBB)-- losing the hand to an ace high flush

Turn makes board: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I check. Villain bets 15xBB. I call.

River makes board: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
As I am thinking as to how I will play, villain says "i put you all-in". after dealer informs him he is out of turn, he apologetically states he thought the dlr pointed at him. i call his all-in bet...thoughts on what he turned over??


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Villain shows Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and takes down the pot.

my thinking during the hand:
did not raise pre-flop, as pre-flop bets were not getting much respect in previous hour... and i figured i would be out-of-position for the hand, and not hitting an ace or king on the flop would have to fold to any bet behind

when villain raised me on flop i put him on club draw holding 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]+X [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] perhaps, or two pair. i did not put him on the set, as i feel as if though he would have just called my bet on the flop and not raised.

i called the bet on the turn thinking i now had additional outs with the 4 jacks in the deck giving me a straight.

on the river, his aggressive play to put me "all-in" made me think that he did not flop a set (now giving him a full house with the queens on board), as i feel in this instance a value bet would be called for, as opposed to an aggresive move like he made. at best i put him on 2 pair, at worst a busted flush draw. putting him on the 2 pair, i called ... incorrectly thinking that my Kings and Queens w/ Ace kicker were now superior to his holding.

As i have busted out nearly 10 consecutive 100xBB buy-ins in this NL game recently, i have lost some confidence in my play and would welcome any comments regarding this hand as i am unsure about my play... but even more unsure if i am even analyzing my play correctly. any comments are much appreciated

[lapoker17]

Your can't limp in preflop. You are going to be out of position for the rest of the hand, so you need to clear out the crap (like Q7). Make a big bet when it's limped to you and the rest of this hand works the way it should - You either pick up all the dead money preflop, or you get a caller or two (not Q7), bet the flop strong and take it down. This entire sequence was set up because you limped.

Don't know how big the stakes are, but there's no shame in playing smaller stakes for a while as you get your game together.

[knifeandfork]

if your plan involves getting all in with tptk do it on the flop when he raises your bet or on the turn when the scary card comes. be aggressive when you flop something with this hand so as to take it down before disaster strikes and he hits his runner runner trips or his flush draw. pushing the flop here wins you a semi small pot but if you really feel he is playing weakly at you it beats letting him beat you for free or check calling. all imho,
jason

[SlyAK]

Limping in the SB after 6 limpers is a crime against humanity. I definitely prefer AK 2 or 3 handed going to the flop.

Sly

[kirisim]

I disagree - I think limping is fine. I don't like putting in too much money out of position with AK. If you make a 15XBB raise, you will get at least 2 callers in a typical loose NYC game. Then, if you miss the flop, as you will 2/3 of the time, you will be in an awkward spot.

The rest of the hand just depends on your read of what you think he has.

[varadero]

If you don't raise preflop with this hand to drive people out, you have made your life so much more difficult than it needs to be. You raise for information, in this case, about how strong your opponenets are. If someone calls or plays back at you, you know with considerable certainty that you are dealing with strength at least similar to your hand. With 8 (!!!) people in there, there is a good chance someone made a hand on the flop to beat you. In my mind a 10xBB raise preflop is a great investment in information.

[soah]

And what are you going to do with the information you get?

[schwza]

i think the biggest reason to raise pre-flop is that if 8 people see the flop, i don't want to go to the felt with TPTK. it's too likely that somebody will flop some kind of two pair/straight/etc. hand that you'll never see coming.

raising against loose players tends to make exactly the kind of hands you want to call, call. AJ, KQ, A9, etc. the fact that opponents aren't respecting raises is all the more reason to raise your strong hands. if you build a nice big 3-way pot, that's great. playing in a small 8-way pot is not.

[GFunk911]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree - I think limping is fine. I don't like putting in too much money out of position with AK. If you make a 15XBB raise, you will get at least 2 callers in a typical loose NYC game.

[/ QUOTE ]

This for an argument FOR raising. My opponents will call large raises preflop with dominated hands, so I won't raise. I see people say this all the time: "well my preflop raise wouldn't drive anyone out so I didn't raise." You raise both to thin the field and for value. Yeah, you won't flop an ace or a king a lot of the time: that's why it's gambling. If you don't, then you play the hand based on your reads. If you flop an ace or a king, there's already half a buyin in the pot, and if you're lucky you can take somebody's entire stack, if these players are as loose as you describe.

[varadero]

[ QUOTE ]
And what are you going to do with the information you get?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you're reraised you're probably up against jacks or better and the hand becomes a tenuous call or (in my mind) easy fold - if you're just called you figure you're up against 8s or better, or some big ace. When the flop comes, bet out any paired ace or king, knowing that caller(s) will expect you to have (at least) paired up and will only call or raise if they have you beat.