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#1
11-30-2004, 06:15 PM
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Playing Flush Draws from the Blinds vs. pre-flop raiser (hypothetical)
A concept that I'm not always clear about and I hope it's something that can be dealt with hypothetically (although with good reads on your opponents this would change):
You're dealt 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the BB. UTG+1 raises pre-flop, you get 4 cold-callers, SB calls, BB completes. Flop comes Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Without a raise pre-flop I would either call SBs bet (to try and keep people in) or bet out myself. The presence of the pre-flop raiser sometimes confuses me. If SB doesn't bet out, do I bet my flush draw although the likelihood is that the pre-flop raiser will immediately raise me and probably scare off a lot of people or do I just check and hope he bets out? Although it would probably rarely happen I just hate the thought of the flop getting checked all the way through. And I know that depending on the actual cards on the flop (A vs. Q high; perhaps some connectedness) strategies again would vary but I'm trying to get a grasp on what should be the easiest situations. Thanks! 
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#2
11-30-2004, 06:36 PM
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Re: Playing Flush Draws from the Blinds vs. pre-flop raiser (hypothetical)
Great post, and i look forward to some discussion and critique ofmy thoughts in this situation.
Assuming I have just sat down and have no notes on the players, I am wanting to get to the turn as cheaply as possible, but really don't want to give a free card, as I have no over cards, so, I don't want to invest too much into this pot early on, but I don't want the guys with the lone ace or king (especially if it isof spades and the turn connects for us) to be hanging around. With the presence of a preflop raiser, I think I check here and expect him to bet out, had he not raised, I am betting this. I believe an argument could be made for betting out,butif it gets raised by UTG+1, the field is placing two cold and you may lose all of your customers that you need to make continuing with the hand a +EV play. Obviously even if everyone folded you are calling the one additional bet to see the turn, but if you miss there, I think you are donewih the hand as you have no one left in the pot to get you the right odds to draw for the flush on the river. That at least are the thoughts/considerations that would go through my head in this situation.
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#3
11-30-2004, 07:40 PM
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Re: Playing Flush Draws from the Blinds vs. pre-flop raiser (hypothetical)
I would check and then either call the preflop raisers bet or raise based on the number of people comming along. There are 6 others in the pot, so you definantly have over your fair share of pot equity with that flop. If 3 people or more call his bet I would raise for value. If there are 2 or less callers I would have to lean to call. Also, despite having a flush draw you also have 9 cards which improve you to a gutshot straight draw, as well as 3 cards which improve you to an OESD. So essentially there are 9 cards which make your hand a lock (disregarding a possible higher flush draw), and 12 more cards which give you an extra 3 to 6 outs going into the river.
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#5
12-01-2004, 10:08 PM
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Re: Playing Flush Draws from the Blinds vs. pre-flop raiser (hypothetical)
tourney or cash game? limit or no-limit? if it is NL it really depends on the opposition. if you think the preflop raiser will raise for sure even if he missed with AK then i would tend to check call. if you think you can steal on the flop or turn then i would bet. most times i am looking to get a cheap card however unelss it is heads up or if it is a tourney and the blinds arent high. note that the flop is Q high which is a different situation than if it is A high in which case it is less likely you can win without improvement by semibluffing. but against a decent player as an UTG raiser i am not normally betting here if i expect to get raised.
Pat
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#6
12-02-2004, 12:57 AM
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Re: Playing Flush Draws from the Blinds vs. pre-flop raiser (hypothetical)
With the likely raiser on your left and desirable likely callers following, I'd check. If its checked through you've got a great semi-steal on the turn. If there were 4 callers and a button raise, I'd bet out. But that all presumes you want callers, which in this case you do. If you had a two-over-card draw you MAY prefer the raise to protect your pair if you make it.
- Louie
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