KQ in Button

[Little Fishy]

Empire full ring (new to table, no reads)

Hero is Button with KQ offsuit
folded to MP2 who raises, MP3 calls, folded to CO who calls, hero calls, Blinds fold

Flop: K 8 3 rainbow
MP2 Bets all call

Turn: T
Checked to Hero who bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls

River: 7
Co checks, Hero Bets, Co calls

[MHarris]

I don't like the preflop call. KQs plays better here.

Postflop, well played. There's no point in raising the flop, as you're closing the action. Turn and river are standard.

[MrFeelNothin]

KQs always plays better than KQo. Theres no way in hell I'm folding KQo here on the button to someone who openraised in MP2.
I could see raising the flop if you think MP is going to give up on the turn, as is likely with such a ragged board I doubt he has a piece of and all those callers. However I usually do what you did and wait for the turn. Unfortunately for you noone bit. Turn and river bets are completely standard. Whole hand is pretty standard.

[Turtle]

I'm weighing the pros and cons of raising the flop with raising on the turn...

I think my usual play is to raise the flop when in this situtation. It may well be checked to me on the turn, but if an A hits, I'm pleased to get the opportunity to just call down a river bet. And I'd like to see how MP2 reacts to the raise, but I recognize this may be a specious rationale...

I'm certainly open to the possiibility I'm misplaying this situation. Can anyone recommend a link to thread which addresses this situation?

regards-
jeff

[MHarris]

I'm not saying fold KQo on the button against an MP2 raiser every single time. If it's an opponent who I believe I can outplay postflop and there are no cold-callers between us, it's either a call or a 3-bet. But there are 2 cold-callers here, and even having position on the field isn't enough of an advantage to come in because you run the risk of being dominated by AK or AQ, which many low-limit players will just call a raise with. Fortunately for Hero, is seems he was best, but making this call preflop will show a long-term loss unless you play far better than your opponents all the time.

[MarkL444]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying fold KQo on the button against an MP2 raiser

[/ QUOTE ]

I am, not worth it.

[willie24]

i would fold preflop and raise the flop. obviously, turn and river are fine.

edit: those who say call the flop and raise the turn might be right. in spite of that, i am probably raising the flop here. i want my opponents to "know" i have AceKing. if opponents aggression continues, i can be sure i'm behind.

with AK i would wait for the turn.

tell me if this is stupid

[MHarris]

I changed my post, looks like it can be misunderstood. I meant that there ARE times when it can be played profitably against a MP2 raiser, but those times are rare.

[chesspain]

Easy fold preflop.

[ErrantNight]

fold preflop... check out the very first hand quiz in SSH... similar situation (KJo and with one limper before the raiser), but the concept is the same... domination is something to be feared. unsuited hands here should consist of pocket pairs or AK, maybe AQ. That's it.

as a simple FYI: the hand is also a fold using the preflop table charts (not that i recommend using them as gospel)