kinda deep 2/5 hand

[scdavis0]

2/5 hand

Villain is a strong player and views me along similar lines

I have $1200 and he has me covered. 8 person table, I limp with black 88 utg+1. One other limper comes in, and villain makes it $25 to go. One caller in the CO, blinds fold, I call, limper calls.

$82 pot

Flop is Ks 8h 4h

I check, limper checks, villain bets $60, CO folds, I c/r to $180, limper folds, he ponders and calls


$442 pot
Turn is 2c

I check, he bets $275, I call (with some feigned mental calculation)

$992 pot

River is Js

I instantly going all in for $720


thoughts?

[JMP300z]

Thats a definite fold preflop, at best your a moderate favorite in a coin flop but youre probably dominated. Then what are you going to do when an overcard hits, because they will like EVERY time, and then your going to HAVE to fold.

If i somehow made it to the flop, im pushing over the top of that raise....no way im letting him draw to that flush. Besides he could suck out on you with any card and you might never know which card it is. I just dont like playing this size a pot with no real read.

-JMP

[B1GF1SHY]

Maybe I'm stupid or something, but was that reply full of sarcasm?

The villian only raised 5x the BB and both the stacks are deep enough (240BB+) to make this call correct, with the limpers calling it's even better. Check-raise was fine but I would've continued to bet on the turn around 2/3 the pot. Really sucks if he has KK or JJ.

[pocketdueces81]

First off I am glad that you got paid off with a set here. I personally would not have taken this line here. I am more inclined to lead out into the initial raiser for somewhere between 50% and 100% of the pot. I believe that your bet will be raised here by the villain. Pause for a minute and make him think he has the best hand and then smooth call or re-raise. By doing this you have built a nice pot and can get all your chips in on the turn (or the flop if he decides to push).

To the previous poster: with a stack of >$1000 you are not going to call a 25$ with 88? I sometimes may re-raise to isolate or take it down right there.

[GFunk911]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats a definite fold preflop, at best your a moderate favorite in a coin flop but youre probably dominated. Then what are you going to do when an overcard hits

[/ QUOTE ]

Um ... he's gonna not play the hand hot and cold. He's getting 3 or 4 to 1 straight pot odds to flop a set, he's out of position, which is bad, but playing deep stack NL he easily has the implied odds to see a flop. The part I don't like is being out of position.

[ QUOTE ]

If i somehow made it to the flop, im pushing over the top of that raise....no way im letting him draw to that flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry if I'm being an ass, but um .... what? Villian didn't raise, first off. Second, you want to push in for 1200 against a 60 flop bet with the 2nd nuts, begging to be called by the only hand that beats you?

[ QUOTE ]

Besides he could suck out on you with any card and you might never know which card it is. I just dont like playing this size a pot with no real read.

[/ QUOTE ]

The "read" is that you have the 2nd nuts, and either he has pocket kings and you're going broke or you want to get paid off (while obviously charging any heart draws enough so that they become unprofitable, for starters). If he has pocket queens, a queen could beat you, so you push?

Going back to the original hand, I don't like the check raise. I like to bet out with the set and hope to get raised. If he has kings you're going broke, and the check raise alerts the opponent. If he calls and you check the turn (as you did), your opponent needs to believe that your flop check raise showed weakness in order to bet into you again (which apparently he did), which is dangerous. This board is pretty draw free, which makes it less dangerous, but generally I like to bet out with a set. I would love for a more experienced poster to tell me why I'm wrong though.

[beta1607]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats a definite fold preflop, at best your a moderate favorite in a coin flop but youre probably dominated. Then what are you going to do when an overcard hits, because they will like EVERY time, and then your going to HAVE to fold.


-JMP

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't tell if you are serious or being sarcastic but I really hope your being sarcastic. If you are being serious then you should do some real studying before you play again.

[lapoker17]

I don't like the c/r on the flop. I lead out weakish and hope to get raised.

[SlyAK]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats a definite fold preflop, at best your a moderate favorite in a coin flop but youre probably dominated. Then what are you going to do when an overcard hits, because they will like EVERY time, and then your going to HAVE to fold.

If i somehow made it to the flop, im pushing over the top of that raise....no way im letting him draw to that flush. Besides he could suck out on you with any card and you might never know which card it is. I just dont like playing this size a pot with no real read.

-JMP

[/ QUOTE ]


Quite possibly the worst advice ever on a hand at high stakes. Do you see why?


PS. Well played on every street.


Sly

[SlyAK]

I personally normally go with the bet and hope to get raised line too.... but I dont think there is a real problem with going for a c/r here either as long as the poster is fairly certain that villain will bet.

Sly

[fsuplayer]

I really hate the flop CR in this situation, it lets everyone off too easily.

I would bet out the flop, hopefully CO might call, then if the guy has what you hope he has (AK or AA), then he will prob. but in a good size raise and build that pot for you.

after leading out and calling his raise, the turn is player dependant, you could either lead out again or CR all in.

with short-med. stacks, the CR is fine, bc any decent hand KQ or better will go to the felt with you.

deep stacks are another deal altogether.

in this situation, you really need to try and build a pot to bet at, so that later in the hand, you can get all your chips AND get called bc of the pot size.

CRing the flop can spook AA and AK a lot of times, you dont want that. make him feel like he is beating you/protecting his hand from draws, then when you spring later, the pot is too big to fold his AA there.

when deep, just think about it with a PL mindset, sometimes, you really need to build a pot to bet at.


fsuplayer