Pocket fives -- isolation attempt

Nick C · #1 11-28-2004, 11:45 AM

CO is very loose and not particularly aggressive preflop but loves to bluff and bluff-raise once the flop comes. I don't have a very good read on BB, unfortunately.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, CO raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (10.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, CO caps, Hero calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 22.75 BB

What do you think?

Rah · #2 11-28-2004, 12:16 PM

I think it looks horrible. Why are you not raising that flop? Why are you not raising the turn? And Jesus, why do you start raising when the flush/straight-card hits and not before??

Secondly, why are you trying to isolate with a pair of fives? I think you misplayed basically every street here.

Nick C · #3 11-28-2004, 12:19 PM

Well, I'll admit, the river card wasn't ideal.

Edit: I may have misplayed this hand horribly. But I think it's important to understand that CO's bets and raises meant nothing.

Luv2DriveTT · #4 11-28-2004, 12:30 PM

Horrible. Just plain horrible.

1) raise the flop. Show some aggression!

2) Raise the turn. What the hell are you waiting for?

3) Thats not a wise raise pre-flop.

4) The river... its a dicey situation, and its one that you may not be in if you played the flop & turn correctly.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Kluddeludde · #5 11-28-2004, 01:41 PM

I don't like it.

Preflop: I dislike your raise here for two reasons.
1) CO like to bluff and bluff-raise.
2) No read on the blinds.
Had CO been a more predictable, loose opponent and the you had a read on the blinds as rather tight, I would make this raise every time. Since the CO is rather tricky, though, you will never really know whether you are ahead or behind and may make costly postflop mistakes. As it is now, I call preflop.

Flop: I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to accomplish here. You flopped a great hand, CO is trapped between you and BB and you fail to raise. You have huge pot equity here. Get the money in.

Turn: If you're reason for just calling the turn were to keep BB in if CO was trying for a bluff-raise, then I'm somewhat inclined to like it. Not very much, though. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

River: Not sure I like this, either. If you 3-bet what hands will BB call with, given that you have played your hand as a flush draw all the way? Add that to the fact that CO may be bluff-raising and I would just call this and hope BB overcalls. Perhaps I'm giving your opponent too much credit, though...

Kludde

Kluddeludde · #6 11-28-2004, 01:42 PM

Would he call with nothing as well? For example, would he call the river with nothing if you 3-bet?

Kludde

Harv72b · #7 11-28-2004, 01:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: I may have misplayed this hand horribly. But I think it's important to understand that CO's bets and raises meant nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

And also to understand that BB's calls meant something.

You're holding bottom set here on a flush/straight board. That's not a hand that I'd 3-bet the river with, especially not with another player calmly calling everything that I and the maniac threw at him. This is a hand that should have been raised & reraised from the flop, but you have to slow down when that 3rd spade shows up on the river--the only hand that BB should have played that way would be a low flush draw, which means that even if you have CO pegged on the bluff/semi-bluff, you're still holding the 2nd best hand.

TaggedYa · #8 11-28-2004, 02:12 PM

Ok. First to make sure I understand what your plan was pre flop;

You figure CO is in with just about any 2 cards. You don’t have the limpers to have the odds to limp and try for the set so the plan is to raise out the BB and play heads up against the CO when he misses the flop and tries to bluff you out with his junk.

I like this. I don’t like it a lot but I like it. Without doing a simulation to pin it down, which you can’t do in a game, my gut tells me you are ahead of the trash that a very loose player holds limping first-in in the cut off.

Problem is that plan A hit the shitter when the BB calls. It goes right out the window when you flop a set on a flush board. You are ahead of anything but a pair of aces or a pair of eights. Does anyone have the AA. Not a chance. Even the most passive types are going to raise with AA. The 88s, possible but not likely, so now its time for plan B.

You are only afraid of a very unlikely hand or of a draw. So now you need to make draws and bluffs and Ax hands pay. Starting from the flop I’m putting in every bet I can. BB bets, you raise, he 3 bets, you cap.

The Q on the turn didn’t hurt you unless someone is playing pocket QQs. A little more likely than AA but not much. AQ just took it in the shorts. Would CO limp first in with AQ? Or Q8? Keep jamming.

The river is a disaster. Any 2 spades and you are beat. KJ beats you but I don’t see either opponent having it. I think if you loose here it is to the CO with a pair of pocket TTs, or to the BB with a baby flush or Ax of spades. With 2 in I think you win enough times to call but I wouldn’t be betting.

Small disclaimer: I have serious doubts about my post flop play but I have no doubts at all that you have to jam as hard as you can with small sets on a flush board.

TaggedYa · #9 11-28-2004, 02:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Horrible. Just plain horrible.

1) raise the flop. Show some aggression!

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed

[ QUOTE ]

2) Raise the turn. What the hell are you waiting for?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed

[ QUOTE ]

3) Thats not a wise raise pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I’m not so sure here. I think the starting plan was good (see above) but Hero never adjusted when it was no longer feasible. If Hero is not capable of adjusting on the fly when a marginal situation doesn’t go as planned then you are right, it isn’t wise to make plays that have a very large probability of going amiss.

[ QUOTE ]

4) The river... its a dicey situation, and its one that you may not be in if you played the flop & turn correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that its dicey. I agree he would be a lot better off with better flop and turn play. I don’t think he would of folded out Axs which is what I would most fear from BB. BB could also have virtually any baby flush around the 8, 5 area and not fold. That said I think Hero is still ahead about 30% of the time but through no fault of his own. :-)

TaggedYa

Nick C · #10 11-28-2004, 02:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: I may have misplayed this hand horribly. But I think it's important to understand that CO's bets and raises meant nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

And also to understand that BB's calls meant something.

You're holding bottom set here on a flush/straight board. That's not a hand that I'd 3-bet the river with, especially not with another player calmly calling everything that I and the maniac threw at him. This is a hand that should have been raised & reraised from the flop, but you have to slow down when that 3rd spade shows up on the river--the only hand that BB should have played that way would be a low flush draw, which means that even if you have CO pegged on the bluff/semi-bluff, you're still holding the 2nd best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rightly or wrongly, I thought BB would play top pair this way.