Three questionable plays today

[fimbulwinter]

well, today went bad. proud of myself for playing well though, but it's poker.

sometimes when i get stuck, i get fancy; made these moves today shortly after losing a big pot. good or tilty?

all typical weak/tight 200NL trout at the table.

didn't get a stack above $300

1. all limp to me on BB. i see KQs. I make it $24 to go.

2. I'm on BB with 88. EP raises to 12, two callers to me, SB folds, i call. Flop 449 three colors. I bet $20.

3. I'm on BB again with 22. EP raises to 12, all call to me, i call. $72ish in pot. flop 345. checked around. turn 6. checked around. river 7. I bet 40.

fim

ps- one other thing, just a general question for people out there: i tend to lose my stack when i flop two pair against a preflop raiser and someone in the field hits a set. do you guys get away from this on a 50BB stack in general? how do you deal with a flop minraise holding two pair on a drawless board.

I seem to always lose a healthy amount of $ with two pair against a set, i think it's a hole that needs a-pluggin.

[soah]

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I seem to always lose a healthy amount of $ with two pair against a set, i think it's a hole that needs a-pluggin.

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But how much do you win with 2 pair against a raise all the times you have the best hand?

As for the hands...

1 - That's something I've been experimenting with lately, and I'm not pleased with the results thus far. There's just not enough (any?) folding equity, at least at my tables. But if you check and hit top pair it's usually good and you can make some money.

2 - I'd either bet more or none at all. Depending upon how much respect I have for the raiser amongst other things. Unless everyone folds you'll be in a bad spot.

3 - Ick. I think I'd be more likely to bet this flop than the previous hand. And I'd be more likely to bet the turn here than the river.

[Yeti]

1) I do stuff like this all the time at the 100NL. Usually people will fold to this I've found. You gotta watch out for the LAGs who will call raises with most things and love to play aggressively on the flop with position against you. On a standard table with high VPIPs I'd make this play every time.

2) If you're going to do this bet around $50 instead.

3) Bet the turn in my opinion.

[BigToga]

Hand 1 - As Ciaffone say, if they're going to have position on you for the rest of the hand, make em pay! I like the raise - especially if this is short-handed (you don't mention # of plyrs).

Hand 2 - I'd probably go 50-70% pot bet here or pot-sized depending on the competition. I'm certainly happy to take it down but, with a $20 bet, you're pricing *all* the fish in. I know what you're thinking, "I'll bet a trappish bet and hopefully they'll fold." - but they aren't that smart! Too fancy, IMO

Hand 3 - I'm betting the flop for damn sure. You have position here - if you don't bet the flop, you are basically saying, "Someone come out bluffing on the turn, please."

[soah]

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Hand 1 - As Ciaffone say, if they're going to have position on you for the rest of the hand, make em pay! I like the raise - especially if this is short-handed (you don't mention # of plyrs).

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This is not at all the same because you've been given the chance to see the flop for free.

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Hand 3 - I'm betting the flop for damn sure. You have position here - if you don't bet the flop, you are basically saying, "Someone come out bluffing on the turn, please."

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Huh? Called a raise in the bb... out of position. If you're not sure you're ahead here it's ok to check and then fire on a safe turn card. I'd probably bet though since you have a pretty decent draw to rely on if you get called.

[phrosty]

hey fimbul i owe u one. i used move no.1 twice on the stars .50/1.00 table and netted $25 bux. once i picked up all the loose dollars on the table and the second time got one caller who gave up on the flop. i'm thinkin it's not something u do very often, but a couple times a night...i like it [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[BigToga]

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Hand 1 - As Ciaffone say, if they're going to have position on you for the rest of the hand, make em pay! I like the raise - especially if this is short-handed (you don't mention # of plyrs).

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This is not at all the same because you've been given the chance to see the flop for free.

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Hand 3 - I'm betting the flop for damn sure. You have position here - if you don't bet the flop, you are basically saying, "Someone come out bluffing on the turn, please."

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Huh? Called a raise in the bb... out of position. If you're not sure you're ahead here it's ok to check and then fire on a safe turn card. I'd probably bet though since you have a pretty decent draw to rely on if you get called.

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Hand 1 - If he feels he has the best hand, then he should bet it, IMO. In an ideal game, everyone folds and only the SB calls but that's not likely. I don't know - maybe I'm off base here but, without a raise here, how do you know your KQs is good if the flop comes K93r? Lots of folks will play K9s for no raise and SB could've tossed in another $1 with K3s for all we know. Am I just off here? If I am, please tell me since I'm still learning. I started posting on these forums to make myself think through these hands and to learn. This is just what I think I would do right here, right now. KQs is a drawing hand and I want people to play with me but, when it hits, I want to know that it's good..

Hand 3 - Maybe I'm way off then. Would you suggest he call a $25 bet if someone behind him bets on the flop? If you'd call $25, you should bet here, IMO. No one's going to believe he was playing 56 or A5 but a $25 bet into a $72 pot looks like trips, high pair to me, or 66/22. I think a $25 bet here has a chance of (a) taking it down right now, or (b) allowing him to take control and steal on the turn. He now , in my mind, has his 10 outs for the OES(which you assume no one else has) and trips but he picks up another 9 outs (any remaining 2,3,4) in the form of scare cards. If the board pairs on the turn, he can push hard representing the boat and noone can call him. Is this thinking flawed though? It just seems like, to me, this is a scary flop for anyone behind him if he bets out on the flop and plays the scare cards.

[soah]

As I said earlier I like leading out on hand 3 since you have enough (or almost enough) to call a bet with anyway. And maybe have the best hand. But if you have a reason to believe that the preflop raiser is more likely than usual to have a big pair and raise your flop bet, it's not so good.