QJs party 15/30 in the bb

[bicyclekick]

UTG's note is -
{{VPIP: 33, PFR: 9, AGG: 0.9
Hands: 227, RiverF: 14, CR: 1.00
WSD: 32, W$SD: 60, W$SF: 36
STEAL: 35, FBB: 0, FBB-HU: 0
WF-F: 11, WF-T: 5, W$SD-BR: 89}}

UTG+1's note is
{{VPIP: 19, PFR: 9, AGG: 1.3
Hands: 2,868, RiverF: 31, CR: 1.36
WSD: 34, W$SD: 52, W$SF: 28
STEAL: 47, FBB: 67, FBB-HU: 29
WF-F: 9, WF-T: 3, W$SD-BR: 82}}

Button is unknown and all others are unimportant.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10.66 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Button calls.

I like betting here over the other options.

Turn: (7.33 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn bet is debatable. What do you guys think?

River: (14.33 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, Hero folds

And how bout my river play?

[Monkeyslacks]

Turn is ok.

Tough spot on the river. I drop it against these two opponents as well. Horrible feeling when you see a smaller flush and trip 3s shown down, but that's not these guys with those stats.

[HiatusOver]

This turn bet is very bad. You bet the flop with Q high on a semi-bluff and got 3 callers. You have to check this turn, and I can't see how it is close. Start checking this turn more often in these situations and even when it is closer, I think you will feel a lot cleaner with your overall game. In a live game you can balance that with often checking your big hands on the turn too so they don't always think your turn check is weak after a flop bet, online I think other considerations are more important, but the turn check is still correct. I usually don't bet this flop either but it could be right. You seem to really like the bet, but what hands does UTG+1 really fold on this flop to make it a profitable semi-bluff? And we havent even mentioned the 2 other presumed looser players(we are getting around 8-1 though so I guess thats enough? with our draw equity I guess it could be, but with this flop do they EVER fold?) Then again, I am sure I dont lead into multi-way fields without a pair in raised pots enough. Does anyone else rarely do this? I like these kind of hands Bike, nice post...this is meat and potatoes mid limit hold em stuff

[Monkeyslacks]

Betting the turn here(remember it paired the 3 and hero is in the BB) keeps a lid on the aggression. It usually gets you to the river via the cheap route although it didn't have that effect here...

Not to mention cleaning up your outs.

[HiatusOver]

Hmmmm, I dont see how betting the turn is cheaper than checking the turn...I mean I understand the concept you are trying to push but I dont buy it. Over a lifetime if you check that turn you are gonna get to the river cheaper than if you bet it. If you said the reason to bet the turn is to get UTG+1 to fold a hand like KQ,AJ,AQ then I might buy it a little more. Still dont think I like it though, curious what others think

[RED_RAIN]

I can understand the flop bet if you think UTG+1 will raise with AK, AQ, etc non-pocket pairs. If you are trying to disguise your flush if it hits I like the flop bet. If it does come on turn, if the player is aggressive enough to bluff the turn if checked to with A high or bet any pocket pair (less likely with 4 to the turn with a diamond coming), I'd check hoping for a likely chance to check/raise (this doesn't apply to this hand since 4 to the turn). If the diamond is a T or above regardless if he raises or doesn't raise my flop bet, I'd check. If it's lower than a T, I'd just keep betting out as we don't want a one card flush getting a free river.

If you think that you can get it 2-3 handed to the turn and then take it down on the turn because the remaining people can fold hands like AK, AQ, AJ with no redraws except for 5 then I like flop and turn bet.

In your situation with 4 to the turn, I don't like the bet. I except to be raised with many pocket pairs here and also find it unlikely that 3 others will fold. If not raised, they go on auto-call down mode.

If I don't think UTG+1 will fold hands like AK, AQ, AJ on the turn, I don't like the bet, as you are likely to just check the turn if nothing comes and you will then lose with the check behind of UTG+1 often.

I think this is a very interesting hand. I hope there is good debate on it. I think this hand also plays very player dependent and there isn't a textbook answer to all streets.

[NabO]

I really hate the way you played your hand. I think that the flop bet is ,in my sense, a HUGE mistake. the PFR is on your direct left and he can put the field on 2 bets with EVERY hands a PFR raiser can have. The last think you want to happen with your hand is that a guy takes the lead shuting down potential callers with something as weak as AJ.... According to this the turn bet can't be good.
Nervertheless the river's fold seems good to me..
excuse my english... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[AceHigh]

I think you played it fine until the river.

I like the turn bet, thinking players have to be worried about you having something like A3/65, etc.

Against an unknown on Party 15/30 I'm calling on the river. Couldn't the button have something like A3s/TT?

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]

Against an unknown on Party 15/30 I'm calling on the river. Couldn't the button have something like A3s/TT?

[/ QUOTE ]

it's not the button i'm as worried about as UTG...but I definately think he puts it way over into the fold category.

[bicyclekick]

I didn't mean my last post, and it's too late to edit. I'm more scared of the button but with utg also raising me too it makes it an easy fold.

Sorry to confuse.