What do I want?

[ElSapo]

StratDiamon,

Thanks for the link/definition. Interesting stuff...

[Al Schoonmaker]

You wrote: "The thing is, losing the bet would feel worse than winning would feel good. Does this make sense?"

Yes, it does make sense. There is substantial research evidence (which I unfortunately can't cite) that people put a much higher value on losses than gains. If you search on the net, you can certainly find the references.

This asymetry has enormous significance. It is one reason that people act so foolishly. For example, many people hit and run when they are ahead, but stick around, trying to get even. They may even move to larger and tougher ganes because they just can't accept losses.

Relatively few people can treat losses and gains as equal, and it gives them a huge edge.

Regards,

Al

[JohnShaft]

[ QUOTE ]
You wrote: "The thing is, losing the bet would feel worse than winning would feel good. Does this make sense?"

Yes, it does make sense. There is substantial research evidence (which I unfortunately can't cite) that people put a much higher value on losses than gains. If you search on the net, you can certainly find the references.


[/ QUOTE ]

I saw a piece last night on Dick Vermeil, current Heach coach of the Chiefs, and ex Eagles HC.
When he quit the game twenty years ago he said it was because "The pain of losses stuck with me all week, and the joy of a win lasted about 5 minutes".

For, I'd say a long time now, I've felt that way about poker. I play because I need the money, not because I enjoy it.

I think I am now coming to realise that I need to learn how to keep an even keel, and not be rocked so much by profit or loss. I don't know how I'm going to go through that mental shift, but I know that, if poker is to last for me, I need to.

[ElSapo]

[ QUOTE ]
This asymetry has enormous significance. It is one reason that people act so foolishly. For example, many people hit and run when they are ahead, but stick around, trying to get even. They may even move to larger and tougher ganes because they just can't accept losses.

Relatively few people can treat losses and gains as equal, and it gives them a huge edge.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Al. This thread is actually helping me answer some questions I didn't really know how to ask.

Side question - to what extent can this be learned? Can we condition ourselves to take losses and gains in stride? Or at least move them closer together?

Subjects like this, along with sports psychology, emotional reactions to competition, and so on, are fascinating to me...

ElSapo

[Al Schoonmaker]

You asked,"to what extent can this be learned? Can we condition ourselves to take losses and gains in stride? Or at least move them closer together?"

Yes, SOME people can learn how to handle them. In fact, most of the people who take them in stride had to learn how to do so.

This forum is probably the best place to learn. If you post here and read replies, and read the threads on related subjects, you will learn what worked for various people.

You need to get a variety of opinions instead of relying on any expert because what works for me, or John Feeney, or any other authority may not work for you.

Regards,

Al

[greywolf]

You wrote: "The thing is, losing the bet would feel worse than winning would feel good. Does this make sense?"

[ QUOTE ]

Yes, it does make sense. There is substantial research evidence (which I unfortunately can't cite) that people put a much higher value on losses than gains. If you search on the net, you can certainly find the references.

This asymetry has enormous significance. It is one reason that people act so foolishly. For example, many people hit and run when they are ahead, but stick around, trying to get even. They may even move to larger and tougher ganes because they just can't accept losses.

Relatively few people can treat losses and gains as equal, and it gives them a huge edge.

Regards,

Al




[/ QUOTE ]

Great post Al.

[bilyin]

You write for a living?

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This asymetry has enormous significance. It is one reason that people act so foolishly. For example, many people hit and run when they are ahead, but stick around, trying to get even. They may even move to larger and tougher ganes because they just can't accept losses.

Relatively few people can treat losses and gains as equal, and it gives them a huge edge.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Al. This thread is actually helping me answer some questions I didn't really know how to ask.

Side question - to what extent can this be learned? Can we condition ourselves to take losses and gains in stride? Or at least move them closer together?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's all about the challenge of self-discipline for me. Before I started playing poker, I was a very undisciplined person. I had no real concrete goals and no reason stay on any path.

Soon after getting into poker, I decided that I wanted to be really good at it. Somewhere I read that it's a great idea to keep a little journal, a "Dear Poker Diary" if you will. In the course of documenting this roller coaster that is learning to play poker, I realized among other things that you're gonna lose a coin flip 5, 10, 20 times in a row sometimes and there's nothing you can do about it.

All you can do is ask yourself, "Did I make the correct decision? Regardless of this case's outcome, did that decision make me money?" Even more importantly, you need to answer the question honestly.

Thinking like this had led me to a state where the monetary gain from poker is almost secondary to the daily struggle to learn more and stay disciplined. Good sessions come, good sessions go, but am I IMPROVING?

Al's statement, "winning and losing are the same thing," is the ultimate poker koan and should be the subject of meditation daily until it's second nature.

Every day is a good day.

[ElSapo]

[ QUOTE ]
You write for a living?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, among other things.

[Bacchus]

I think you're looking at it in the wrong way, as if placing a sports wager is an afterthought, a toss of the coin, as you mentioned. But sports gambling is not all that different from playing cards--there are professional sports gamblers, whose expertise lies in learning about specific teams or sports and picking and choosing which bets to place, based on the spreads--which sounds a lot like poker. Those who do well are often those who take the time to learn about it.