Q9s in the CO, what to do with top pair average kicker?

[deaders]

1/2 Prima. 9 handed

Reads: SB is fairly straightforward player, seems a bit weak. Everyone else the usual calling station, noone too crazy.

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB bets, BB folds, 2 calls, Fold, Hero raises, all call.

Turn J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero folds.

I hate playing these hands then hitting top pair and not knowing where I stand. On the flop I was felt stuck because if I called I would have no idea where I was at but raising after theres a few callers on this table usually means all of them will just call the raise which still doesnt give me much of a clue.

When the SB bet out again on the turn after me raising I was pretty sure I was beaten because he is a pretty passive player, and who knows what the other callers had, so I folded.

Comments? Fold preflop? Dont even call on the flop? Call it down?

[vetman81]

Personally, I would fold PF. On the flop, I like the raise, especially with position. If you get reraised you are likely behind, but when you dont, you may be ahead. More likely you are behind to a passive player with a better kicker.

[ QUOTE ]
When the SB bet out again on the turn after me raising I was pretty sure I was beaten because he is a pretty passive player, and who knows what the other callers had, so I folded.


[/ QUOTE ]

If that is your read on SB, then that is probably a good fold. Passive players tend not to bet into raisers unless they have great hands. Calling down may not be the worst play ever, but you are likely behind. Bottom line, fold PF.

[Douglas Leslie]

I would want a couple more callers before I bet this hand PF. After the flop I would fold to a bet and two callers ahead of me with such a weak kicker. Sure you might be winning, but I think it is going to cost you too much to find out. There aren't any obvious draws on the board, so I think it is odds on that at least one of your opponents has a queen. The pot isn't that big, so just let it go.

[k000k]

Everyone said 'fold PF', true dat... But since you're in, I'd raise the flop, see who drops, and maybe take a free card on the turn. If I raise and get reraised, or bet into on the turn, I'll fold that.. I think your line if fine, and your reasoning sounds perfect to me.. Obviously you'd have to call it if a spade turned.

On a different tangent: 9 isnt an average kicker, 9's a BAD kicker. If your 9 is the best kicker, then there's so many low cards out there that the probability of a straight or other (possible 2) lower pairs is much higher. Anything lower and your odds of using the board for a kicker start going up dramatically. I'd call J an average kicker for pairs A-Q.

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling down may not be the worst play ever, but you are likely behind. Bottom line, fold PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, exactly.. You're in an awkward situation because of a loose call PF. This is exactly the reason you don't want to be in this hand. A Q flops, bad kicker.. A 9 flops, kicker is decent, but there's too many overcards..

[deaders]

Yeah it was definitely a poor call preflop it is obviously better folding it so as not to get into that kind of situation anyway.

This was actually part of a terrible session I just had where I caught some horrible beats and I think was slightly tilting after a while but didnt realise it at the time... I started making a few loose and weak plays. Its a good reminder not to play if you are stressed and tired.

As for the results of this hand it turned out that the SB had QQ for top set which he managed to avoid raising at every opportunity. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[deception5]

SSH says this hand should be played in late position (and even early position in loose games)... and you have 6 people going to the flop if the small blind calls... so this seems like exactly the situation SSH would advocate calling - why fold preflop?

[btspider]

PF limp is just fine.

flop raise is good for value/information.

turn action sucks. passive players hate to 3-bet sometimes. this could be Qx who wanted to see a safe turn card before betting more. I'm tempted to call this down. if you fold, the turn is the place to do it.

[theghost]

Preflop limp works for me. You have 3 callers already in and might flop a big hand.

Flop comes marginal, right or wrong I would raise it here too to see where I'm at while it's cheap. I'm folding to a 3-bet.

Turn fold is good, IMO.