Check JJ hand on flop Dumb/Smart?

[Omaha8Player]

Is this a good way to play this JJ hand?
I can’t protect it and the flop has no flush but is pretty coordinated so I want to se a turn car before I act. Should I bet this for value on the flop or wait until the turn?
Read page 171 in HPFAP if your answer is that this is a stupid play and explain the difference from that AA hand? Ther is another example on page 187in SSH.


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (15.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds.

River: (9.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

[sthief09]

just bet the flop. giving them 16-1 is better than giving them infinite odds.

[cold_cash]

I don't have it in front of me, but I think the difference in the AA hand is that you're holding off from raising, not betting - pretty big difference. Also, no overcards can come off when you're holding AA.

In your hand, you can't prevent people from calling profitably with some long-shot draws, but you can at least get some money in the pot while you're a decent favorite to win.

[spamuell]

When opponents call flop bets with draws that have the odds to call, it doesn't mean you lose money. You still make money, just not as much as you would have had they folded those draws. More, though, than if they put nothing in the pot at all. Also protecting your hand yada yada, so bet the flop.

[A_C_Slater]

For the love of Christ bet the flop!

[mtdoak]

Your giving a dangerous free card. You have a pair bigger than the board and are way ahead, and by betting here you can find out alot about others hands. You are betting for value and for information.

[Clarkmeister]

Dumb.

But I think you already knew that.

[JohnShaft]

[ QUOTE ]
Read page 171 in HPFAP if your answer is that this is a stupid play and explain the difference from that AA hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

The 1/4 of the time an Ace, King or Queen come off on the Turn (and you lose to a nothing hand that would have folded to a 'measly' flop bet) *you* will be able to tell us why this is a bad play in your example, and not in the one in the book.

[krille]

I think you mean the TT hand from SSH, not the AA hand.

In that hand the author advocates -just calling- instead of raising. This is because his edge on the flop is fairly low, whilst his edge on the turn will either be fairly large or very small.

If he raises for value on the flop, it will most likely be checked to him on the turn, whilst if he just calls on the flop (when he is a slight favourite), he can exploit his bigger equity on the turn by raising (when he is a bigger favourite).

In your hand betting for value (and to charge/drive out those weak draws) is definately the correct play as you will most likely be checked to on the turn either way.

I think that's all there is to it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[HajiShirazu]

I think if people just ignored that example from SSH they'd be better off. The situations where that play can be applied are rare enough that you should just about always bet your hand on the flop and collect your equity.