A Thank You to ITH Discussion Participants

[Billy Zee]

Since I can now finally be quit of the responsibilty of the ITH Discussion, there are a few people who deserve my thanks.

To MEbenhoe for giving me the opportunity to do the Discussion. To Mr. Matthew Hilger for taking the time to visit and present his ideas in person about his book. To Mr. Malmuth, Mr. Sklanski and Mr. Miller of 2 + 2 Publishing for their professional opinions on ITH.
To all those who added positive inputs either Pro or Con
to the discussion, I thank you all especially. I gained insights into Hold'em Strategies I might not have dug out for myself.

The 2 + 2 Book Club CAN BE a very very good vehicle for newbies such as I to learn how to be a better Poker Player.I must say however, from a visitors standpoint, this Forum has left a bad taste in my mouth. I may or may not participate in the SSh Discussion. I leave the ITH Discussion once and for all with this quote ...

" KNOWLEDGE is PROUD that it knows so much, WISDOM is HUMBLE that it knows no more "

Thank goodness I know how truly ignorant I am.

Regards
Billy Zee

[Ed Miller]

To Mr. Malmuth, Mr. Sklanski and Mr. Miller of 2 + 2 Publishing for their professional opinions on ITH.

I was gonna let this go, but I changed my mind. Please quote me something that I said about ITH or Matthew that you find unprofessional.

[TheLance]

I hope you don't mind me saying so,

But I like your raise here, Ed. You have too many outs in this conversation to fold, and you have too much EV here to not play it aggressively, especially if you have a read on your opponent.

I can't wait to see the turn!

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
To Mr. Malmuth, Mr. Sklanski and Mr. Miller of 2 + 2 Publishing for their professional opinions on ITH.

I was gonna let this go, but I changed my mind. Please quote me something that I said about ITH or Matthew that you find unprofessional.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you quote the wrong line? In this one he said you were professional. It was a later line in which he was talking about the forum leaving a bad taste in his mouth that maybe you wanted to quote? Otherwise I'm just plain confused by this.

[Ed Miller]

Did you quote the wrong line? In this one he said you were professional.

His comment was intended to be sarcastic. You can read his "real" opinion here.

Now I'm sure I should have let it go. But since I didn't...

I always try to be professional, particularly with other authors, and it annoys me when people take shots at me on this forum. If you want to take shots at me, do it on RGP. Take all the shots you want over there. I won't say a peep... hell, I won't even read it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But if you are going to come to my home court and attack me here, you'd better be able to back yourself up.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you quote the wrong line? In this one he said you were professional.

His comment was intended to be sarcastic. You can read his "real" opinion here.

Now I'm sure I should have let it go. But since I didn't...

I always try to be professional, particularly with other authors, and it annoys me when people take shots at me on this forum. If you want to take shots at me, do it on RGP. Take all the shots you want over there. I won't say a peep... hell, I won't even read it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But if you are going to come to my home court and attack me here, you'd better be able to back yourself up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow thats ridiculous. Ed, you presented all your arguments in a very clear and professional way so I can't see what Billy Zee is possibly talking about there. Maybe someday the ITH fanatics will realize the error of their ways, ahh well.

So can we count you in for the SSH discussion? I guarantee you no one will claim you're being disrespectful to the author there [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Mason Malmuth]

Zee:

I think it's very clear that you came over here with an agenda to promote this book and it's author, and you never addressed the complaints about how this text was put together. It's also highly unethical on your part to be over here with one tone and to be using another tone, as Ed Miller points out, on other forums.

On Two Plus Two we encourage vigorous, honest debate. That's the strength of these forums and it's what drives us to make all of the things that we do successful. I can't help but think that your intention was something quite different, and I don't see how you could have learned anything from the discussion of ITH since you never seemed to be open to any sort of criticism of the book.

So when you write on Hilger's forum

[ QUOTE ]
I want to personally thank Matthew for enduring ,what I considered , very unprofessional and outright insulting dialogue from the 2 + 2 authors . Their books may be well read throughout the Poker playing community, but I doubt if their personalities are as well known. ( A pity )


[/ QUOTE ]

But you write here:

[ QUOTE ]
To Mr. Malmuth, Mr. Sklanski and Mr. Miller of 2 + 2 Publishing for their professional opinions on ITH.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not fooling anyone.

MM

[supersub]

Just for the record: I love SSH. No book has done so much to improve my mediocer game as that book. I have of course also read ITH and I liked it.

And I read the threads about ITH with a great interest and I personally have no complaints about any of the posts.

But guys...come on, if you are not a member of the hardcore 2+2 fan club, some of the things written in the thread can come off as very arrogant or even rude.
I guess that is the down side of a vigorous and honest debate.

Ed Miller and Matthew Hillger have both written books that have become very praised and successful. Being publicly successful also means that people will take shots at you and critizise your work. S & M should know this better than almost anybody in the poker community.

It seems to me that while Matthew H can recognize this and even accept that some people have opinions that differ from his, the 2+2 writers simply says that if you are not on our side of the issue you are wrong and if you do not adress the complaints we have, you have an agenda to promote the other guy. That attitude will just rub some people the wrong way, regardless wether they agree with you on the issues or not.

And technically speaking Ed, Billy Zee did just what you said. He took a shot at you away from your “home court”. It may be unethical or whatever, but if you had not provided a link to another forum not many people would have read his post as taking a shot at you. Ok, maybe a tiny shot but not much to be upset about.

Ps. Am I the only guy that likes both Kerry and Bush? Well, actually I don´t. But i like both Ed and Matthew. And Mason. I´m luke warm about Sklansky.

[Billy Zee]

" I always try to be professional, particularly with other authors, and it annoys me when people take shots at me on this forum. If you want to take shots at me, do it on RGP. Take all the shots you want over there. I won't say a peep... hell, I won't even read it.

But if you are going to come to my home court and attack me here, you'd better be able to back yourself up. "

When did ITH become your Home Forum . BTW ITH isn't mine either. If the remark about " Teaching Technique " was not attributed to you, then I sincerely do appologize. However, and this I don not believe should have been allowed by the Moderator here, or by any of the Authors ... The accusations of Plagarism STILL GALL me , and with NO proof whatsoever. I heard no outcry from any of the Authors here about it ... only approval.

Don't worry Mr. Miller, I wont return here to your Home after this.

Billy Zee

[Billy Zee]

Mr. Malmuth,

There has NEVER been a Bellagio in Laughlin Nev. But then, you knew that all the time, just as I did. LOL

And I cannot take credit for an AGENDA, that you created with your very first post in the ITH Discussion Threads.

It is nice to see that this thread has generated some discussion. Shame the last 4 didn't. Nothing to attack in them ?

I now have identified the Bad taste. And it has nothing to do with Wisdom !

Billy Zee