Casino rules allow abuse/cheating? Warning: RANT!

[TPL]

I was at the Seminole Casino in Tampa yesterday and came across a rule that allowed for abuse, and saw several players exploiting the rule. Since I've only been to two cardrooms in my life, I thought I'd post my concern here to see if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.

Seminole allows short-stacks the option of purchasing chips during a hand, or declaring an all-in. In my opinion (and I witnessed this exact abuse), this allows the short-stack to declare all-in's when they have marginal hands, thus relieving them of the need to continue adding bets. Or, when they have strong hands, they can purchase chips and continue to push the pot. What he effectively is permitted to say is, "I choose <font color="red"> </font> to not to bet any more on this hand, but I'm not going to fold." It is this choice that is my problem. In 90 minutes of play, I saw 3 players do this (only buying $20 at a time) so I left.

It seems to me that this is exactly the sort of abuse/cheating one sees online, when a player disconnects during a hand and gets all-in protection. It is unfair to the other players in the hand (although it is a BIG tell when utilized by players that understand the advantage).

The other cardroom I've frequented does not allow re-buys during a hand. If you're out of chips, you're all-in. Re-buy after the hand. Period. I can live with this, since the player does not get to re-buy and push with strong hands. It's a decent compromise.

I understand that it is Seminole's interest to generate every possible penny of rake revenue, thus allowing the in-hand re-buys. But, in the interest of fairness, I think there ought to at least be a penalty to the player that declares the all-in and loses - since the player has effectively said "I have no more money for this table", he/she should be forced to leave the table and re-enter the queue (can be hours at night). I suppose I could live with that also.

I guess what I'm asking is, what is the re-buy policy at other casinos? Which way is more prevalent? If I want to push the issue with casino management, where is the proper place to direct my complaint?

Also, I don't think it's possible given the practically infinite number of conditions present in this situation, but if anyone is aware of a mathematical equation that describes this abuse, I'd appreciate an explanation.

Thanks for reading this rant!

TPL

[BigBluffer]

I've played at several of Florida's [sarcasm] elegant, high-stakes [/sarcasm] Seminole poker rooms and the rule is the same in all of them: cash on the table not only can, it MUST play. In other words, if a dude is down to the felt but has a $20 bill on the table, he MUST play the $20. He definitely does NOT have the option of declaring all-in. On the other hand, if he has no cash on the table before the hand begins and he runs out of chips, he MUST declare all-in. He does not have the option of reaching into his pocket for cash to buy chips in the middle of a hand.

[rant]

Any deviation from this rule is a dealer error and should be brought to the attention of the supervisor/floor. A lot of bullshit goes on in the Seminole poker rooms. Sadly, it's up to us to make sure the rules are enforced, since a large number of the dealers don't know their assholes from their elbows as far as the rules of poker go.

[/rant]

Despite all the bullshit, I continue to visit them because they're the only game in town and they are wonderful aquariums, stocked with a wide variety of tropical fish. Ya just gotta keep your eyes open.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

seminole would be the only casino I have EVER heard of that doesn't use the table stakes rule. That would be so terrible I would not only never play there again, but I would go out of my way to make as big a deal about it as humanly possible.

al

[smoore]

haha, that's a horrible rule. I'd go read the rules the're probably required have posted on the wall and see what that says. If it says table stakes (like it should) just don't let people at your table do it. If it lists the "bet the farm" attitude you described play at another room. hahahah still laughing... horrible.

[Luv2DriveTT]

I'm with Al. Perhaps you can contact the local goverment gambling athorities to explain why this is a form of angle shooting that gives other players an unfair disadvantage.

TT

[TPL]

Any idea what/who regulates indian casinos? Nobody? Or maybe just state law enforcement?

I think I'll send a letter to the casino directly, asking them to clarify if the point BigBluffer made is accurate - it sounds like a reasonable compromise, if it is enforced by the dealers. If so, I'll demand they re-train the dealers and post the rules clearly so I'll have something to reference next time I play. I'll also copy the corporate office for Hard Rock, so they're aware of the loose standards at their partner company.

Other than that, maybe I can get one of the local media outlets interested in doing a hidden camera report... change my 2+2 handle to "Geraldo"... LOL

TPL

[jmark]

That rule is horrible. If you want to play there though you should just buy in for the amount of the big blind and go all-in unless you have a premium hand. Then rebuy for the next hand and repeat.

[TPL]

Yeah, I figure if they blow me off I'll go in one night and make a point of buying in for the minimum $20 and showing them the real abuse potential firsthand.

;-)

[jmark]

They might even be stupid enough to let you pull money off the table if you get above $20.

[smoore]

haha, spin it up to $100 and request a table change