Pushing it too much?

[vector2]

When are you going to post what he had?

[anatta]

Its fairly common in holdem, no-limit but limit as well, to make something of a combination value bet and a bluff. For example, you are checked to on the end, you have less than promised, but you have a hand. Perhaps you were drawing and caught a pair. Your opponent could have very little, but might call you down anyways to stop a total bluff, on the other hand, he might believe you have what you promised and fold a hand that beats you.

It seems to me, what you did on the end is attempt to INDUCE an aggressive player to make a "thin" value bet with a hand you beat, or perhaps just fire away on a total bluff if he missed a draw. The key is your check is strange, and he must think your check on the end is strange. I mean, hell, you've been known to three bet the flop with the nut no pair, so maybe you really got no pair. If he missed and has no pair, its worth a shot in his mind. Also, he knows you would bet a queen, right! I mean, you would have to bet a queen since everybody is pointing out how "terrible" it is not to bet it (BTW Ikke, umm, did you know that he isn't going to check a hand that beat you? I can explain this further if you aren't too busy playing games with buyin bigger than most posters bankrolls). So maybe he will bet his small pair on the end since you don't have a queen or better.

You also point out the raise factor, which is small, but there. You think you outsmarted yourself, okay. Often the smartest play isn't the best play!

[Ikke]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have him on a busted draw and are trying to induce a bluff, what difference does your handstrength make?

[/ QUOTE ]

You quoted me out of context. I said I'm never CHECK-CALLING with an ace. It's either betting out or check-raising.

Regards

[Ikke]

I don't think it matters much for the discussion, but my opponent held a pair AND a flushdraw. His hand was Js9s. It would have been much more interesting to see what he had done with a hand like J8s.

Regards

[vector2]

I'm guessing he ended up checking behind you on the river? I doubt the hand would've been nearly as interesting if he had had J8s instead of J9s. With a pair and a flush draw he was exactly even money against you on the flop if you had had something like AK or AQ with no spade. Frankly, I'm surprised he didn't cap the flop and perhaps only slow down on the turn. If he had had only a flush draw, he probably would've played it somewhat less aggressively.

[mmcd]

If he had had only a flush draw, he probably would've played it somewhat less aggressively.

I think the opposite is true. That's why I put him on a pair rather than a draw. If he just had a naked flush draw, I think a turn raise would be routine in this situation given the preflop and flop action.

Ikke,

I didn't mean to quote you out of context, its just that line jumped out at me. I really don't see a raise there as having much value unless he has specifically a worse A than you (and maybe not even then). Would you ever really attempt a checkraise bluff on the river and risk having him check behind and take the pot with K-high or whatever? If you had just an ace, I really don't see him calling the raise with a worse hand.

Without knowing your hand (or having played with you), going just by the betting here, I'd probably put you on something like TT (which is why I didn't like the river check). I think your opponent here played this hand somewhat poorly by not raising the turn. What would you have done with your KQ here had he raised the turn? How about TT?

[J_V]

I can't get behind this play unless its some sort've balancing play. In a vacuum it can't be good. Too likely he has an A or pair he won't fold. If he has a flush draw and will fold all pairs he makes off the flush draw then you're picking up some equity.


You have to convince me that this guy is unlikely to have an Ace somehow. (Maybe he is a big rope a doper or something of that nature).