The value of the telegraph - opportunistic limp-reraise no limit

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Playing no limit last night at the aladdin. Pretty good game, one super-magoo and a few regular magoos and a couple half decent tighty-Mc-Whitey types.

I am concentrating on watching and listening to my opponents, particularly the two on my left who are talking strategy and trying to talk "good poker" but who have all their stats wrong, calling with the wrong odds etc. I am hardly saying a word, just listening and learning about how they play from their conversations.

The guy two to my left is telegraphing his intentions with near 100% accuracy. Tho he is fairly aggressive preflop, and thus I must play somewhat tighter, I don't care because this is nearly the ideal situation to be in while playing no limit.

This hand I had AKo. I always stall just a bit before looking at my cards, just to try and get a read on downstream players before I decide what to do. Sure enough he starts counting out the $10 he plans to raise. When I see my cards, I immediately limp in for the $2. Next guy calls and telegrapher raises right on cue. Three players call and it's back to me. I push for all my chips, about $90 (I was new into the game and that is all I had).

The guy looks at his buddy and says "well I know he has to have a better hand than me" and folds. The rest do too.

So I figure that his telegraph was worth $40-something to me on that hand alone. Heck, taking down $40 without a fight with AK is surely not a bad deal at all. Plus it was something of an image builder for me (I had mostly been playing very tight). The best part was that he didn't seem to catch on to what I had really done here, and kept right on telegraphing.

comments welcome.

al

[Sundevils21]

I can't wait to turn 21.

[timmer]

I think it is highly likely that, at $40, you are grossly over valuing his tell on this hand.

Because you could have the best hand.

you could improve to the best hand and he could improve to a lesser hand and get the entire $90 payed off.

If you could make that play with the same result with a pair of cards that couldn't ever win then it would be worth $ 40

the fact that your stack is small does make the play strategically sound as gaining chips here can help you win more on future hands. Increasing your stack by 50% with out a fight cant be a bad thing.[1]

I applaude you on your skills of observation. They will undoubtable sever you well in the future.

your friend [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

timmer

[1] For the most part, games which force players to buy in with a miniscule stack is doing those players a disservice.

[Mayhap]

We would call this character, in your pantheon of magoos and tighty-Mc-Whiteys, a Samuel Morse.
Wish such rich dots and dashes were available on line.
/M

[TomCollins]

You need to subtract what your EV on the hand was without knowing the telegraph, plus account for the times where someone else has you beat and calls anyway.

Its like when you hit on 19 at blackjack and get 2, and beat the dealers 20. Sure, your "gut" made you a big winner there, but you have to look at the big picture.

[Noo Yawk]

Hi Al,

The value of information is usually described as having position. So whatever value you place on position, is the value I would place on playing against a telegrapher. In essence you gain position on him.
The same is somewhat true of the poker conversationalists in your game that told anyone who wanted to listen how they play.

Moral: Always look left and keep your ears clean.

Nice post Al.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to subtract what your EV on the hand was without knowing the telegraph, plus account for the times where someone else has you beat and calls anyway.


[/ QUOTE ]

Several have made statements along this line. I say it doesn't really matter much, I DID know about the telegraph, so there's no point subtracting those times I didn't (which as I stated, were very rare). The times someone has me beat and calls anyway, yes, I concede that point, but precisely quantifying it might be difficult. I'll say 5-10%, some of which I will suck out on THEM. Overall, it will wind up making little real difference.

I wish I could find these opponents all the time! I would pull moves like this much more often.

al

[timmer]

a later position telegrapher changes your relative position to that of a player closer to the button. In hold em, where position is fixed through out the hand and throughout the course of the session, having a consistant telegrapher behind you can result in a significant advantage.

Al Capone Jr. is right on in this basic premis.

timmer

[zuluking]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't wait to turn 21.

[/ QUOTE ]

And in not too many years, you'll wish for it again.

Nice post Capone.

[NeverFold]

Awesome use of observations bro. I got a guy in my home game that does the same thing. When he's on my left, I'm limp-reraising with the goods all night.