A5c

[ThingDo]

Hey guys, this is from the 1000k added freeroll on pokerroom. Blinds are 50/100 and I have T1700 which is about the avg. The table is playing very loose passive and there has been very little preflop raising, but when there is a raise it generally gets called in multiple spots by bad hands. UTG limps (about T3K ), ( this means nothing, he's a loose calling station ) UTG+1 limps, she has T800 after the call, MP 1 limps which is normal, he has T1k after the call, MP2 limps like he does EVERY hand and he has T2k, I'm on the button with A5c and I call, SB completes BB checks

Flop is Jc3cQs. Its checked to me and I bet the pot which is 650 leaving me with about 1k left. UTG Calls and the rest fold. He calls with all his holdings unless he's got a really strong one so this could be a draw top pair J anything.. .I don't know. Turn is an 8s putting two spades up. He checks and I check behind. I considered pushing here, but I really didn't my chances were nearly good enough to take the pot right there as I don't think he's folding after he called 650 on the flop. River is a club he bets 200 and I raise to 700 and he calls. How'd I do?

[Chief911]

If we were results oriented, good.

If we looked simply at what you lost, poorly.

Your preflop limp is fine given the table. I dont like the move to push hard on the flop. You want to see your hand develop with multiple people in the pot, not isolated.

The rest is straight forward once you hit your draw. But I think you wasted alot of possible chips by pushing people out on the flop.

What would you have done if UTG would have pushed allin there? Would you have folded 1/3 of your stack there?

Nick

[ThingDo]

Hi Chief, I agree that my flop bet is questionable at best. I know I bet a 3rd of my stack on the flop. I think I either should have bet less on the flop like 300-400 somewhere in that range or push it all in. Something that I've realised as of late is that my thought process or rather my inner dialouge needs to be a good deal better. For whatever reason I find it hard to walk myself through the hand in my head. That is to say I would like to be able to actually "talk to myself." I realise this is a big leak in my game and I'm trying to work on it. . Any advice on how to remedy this is greatly appreciated.

[kuro]

I don't understand why you would want to play Axs that way. With that flop you've got a 1 in 3 chance of hitting your flush draw if you chase to the river.

So if you push all-in, maybe you'll pick up that little pot if you don't get called. If you push all-in and get called you're going to lose all your money about 2 in 3 times. That's just not a good bet strategy.

The whole concept of making a pot sized bet on a flop like that when you don't have a flush draw is to make the people with flush draws have to pay too much to chase. Sometimes you can bet the pot with a flush draw and then your caller will check the turn rather than betting thinking you're not on a draw but that's kind of a fancy play and not something you want to do if your stack is small compared to the bet.

It's usually better to try to nurse the other callers along. Maybe min-bet some to increase the size of the pot on the flop or on the turn or both. The more people still in the pot the more likely it is that when you make your flush someone will call your raise on the river or will make a lesser hand and bet into you on the river.

[Lloyd]

I think limping is certainly a fine play given the table and your position. I don't like the bet on the flop simply because this is not a board that so many people have missed. Someone probably has a Q or J or a straight draw or a flush draw (which could work out to your advantage). So, your semi-bluff bet will probably not win the pot and that is really the only reason why you'd make such a bet. I would check and see the turn for free.

[Lloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe min-bet some to increase the size of the pot on the flop or on the turn or both.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't like a mini-bet here. I think it hurts you tremendously. First of all, if someone flopped a nice hand and is planning a check-raise you just played right into them. Secondly, you know you're going to get called by one or more people. So you build the pot. What does that do on the turn if someone now decides to bet? Of course, it increases the amount of their bet since bets are in proportion to pot sizes. This will make it even more difficult for you to see the river cheaply.

[zaxx19]

Ya why would yu make a mini bet?? Either yur gonna get a huge reraise or win a pot that isnt gonna really help you given your situation...I want people to get hands here especially if they have weaker flushes thats where ax suited really pays off..As for limping thats fine what else yu gonna do with a5?? i mean would raising be a bluff?? It is A5 not A10 or AJ....

[kuro]

The reason that I like the mini-raise in this setting is that he said the table is mostly loose passive with a lot of calling stations. Now you have a pot with 7 people in it in which you will hit that nut flush 1 in 3 times. So if you think you can get 3 or more of those calling stations to make the min-bet then you are money ahead over the longrun. You don't have to worry that much about getting check-raised all-in by someone in this situation because loose passives seldom check-raise.

[Iconoclastic]

Why not just check the F?