Proof of God:: The Argument from Contingency

[Al_Capone_Junior]

All the good posts on the psychology forum are now instantaneously getting buried in threads like this one. For holy good "god" friggin' hell, this forum is for discussion of topics related to "psychology as applied to poker and other gambling games," not moronic discussions about god and religious bullshit/innuendo/hype and pointless arguing about unprovable topics.

I guess we need a "religious bullshit and threads about god" forum now so that we can get the psychology forum back to what it is supposed to be.

al

p.s. if anyone doesn't like what I am saying here they can go to "hell" (religious implications intended)

[arabie]

I normally would agree with you, however i was introduced to the god posts by Sklansky's posts, and I always thought he was in a fair position to decide what is and is not acceptable on each forum. Also, you simply don't have to respond if you've got nothing to say. No one's preventing poker psychology posts from being posted.

[Peter Harris]

hear hear al. besides the argument that religion is "illogical" and how can a "logical" poker player believe in it, these threads are merely clutter which dominate the threads of psychological value.

[kalooki45]

Unfortunately for the physics argument, is not possible to recreate a state of complete nothingness. Physics exists in the world as it already is.

[NotReady]

I believe Aquinas is repeating Aristotle here. Kant dealt with the "proofs" of God. He basically said that each proof requires an assumption, and it would be just as logical to make the opposite assumption and thus logically arrive at the opposite conclusion.

This particular "proof" is that of First Cause, or Unmoved Mover, later presented as the cause and effect argument. Every effect has a cause, but the chain cannot go on to infinity, so there must be a first cause. It fails because it requires an assumption that violates the logical principle used. If every effect has a cause there can't be a first cause.

I'm a Christian and I wish there was a silver bullet that would demonstrate the absolute certainty of Christianity. The 20th century thelogian and apologist, Van Til, thought he had such an argument with the Transcental Argument for the Existence of God (TAG), but I believe it doesn't achieve the absolute certainty he thought.

Christianity is faith based. This is not blind faith. "The heavens are telling of the glory of God" and Romans 1:20 says all know God through what has been made. There is evidence, but finite human beings cannot achieve absolutely objective, demonstrable certainty. Atheism is also faith based, but has no evidence. On the basis of logic alone, atheism is self-destructive.

[1111]

That's a fairly anthropocentric and trivial way to view existence.

[chabibi]

well said...

[tek]

I just want to know:

What difference does it make what/who/how/why this world was created?

Would that knowledge change the way you do things?

Unles god or some alien from another universe gave me some new ability, superpower or a shjt load of money, knowing the cause of the universe wouldn't matter didly to me.

I don't deny something created all theis. But I just don't care.

I doubt anyone will be able to answer my two questions above coherently...

[NotReady]

[ QUOTE ]

Unles god or some alien from another universe gave me some new ability, superpower or a shjt load of money, knowing the cause of the universe wouldn't matter didly to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

God gave you all your abilities and all you own. By your own reasoning the cause of the universe should matter to you.

[kalooki45]

[ QUOTE ]
What difference does it make what/who/how/why this world was created?

Would that knowledge change the way you do things?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your question is good. Why should it matter? If God simply set the Universe in motion, and then took no further interest in it, it wouldn't matter at all.
God in that scenario would be more like a Force of Nature--blind, powerful, and uncaring.

However, if as the Bible suggests (and many other religions as well) your soul is immortal, and there is an afterlife in which you will be judged as either fit or unfit to share His companionship, then it would be the single most important question in the universe; worthy of the rest of your thinking life.

Almost all religions postulate an afterlife of some sort, either in an endless series of reincarnations, or a new life on a different plane altogether.

The monotheists go further and say that God takes a personal interest in you. They say further that He has a personhood. 'I AM' (the name God gave for Himself to the Jews) seems to be saying this.

And yes, if you believe that your actions will have ETERNAL consequences, you may think a bit longer about certain decisions...lol