I Hate Overcards (postflop) [hands]

EdSchurr · #1 11-07-2004, 11:41 PM

I'm not sure what sort of etiquette there is on the limit of hands one should post. These are all similarily themed, though. If you finish up a session, study, and then have five to ten hands you want someone else to review, do you post them in a single post, in a few by theme, or spread them out over an hour or two?

Overcards are tricky when they miss.

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.
Unfortunately, betting does not force out draws here. But otherwise it's pretty ragged.

Turn: (5 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.
Should I have bet here? Since I'm in position and the card is scary, I'm just going to take the free card.

River: (5 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.
Check-fold.

Final Pot: 5 BB
Main Pot: 5 BB, between Hero, SB and UTG+1.

I'm not sure about the turn, but I think this was correct.
--

MP1 has only played a single rotation, but so far he's loose, aggressive preflop, and aggressive postflop. Practically a stranger. :P

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (10 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero folds.
While I'm very likely behind, the pot is big so just maybe I should have called. Only need to win more than 9% of the time to show profit... if I had a pair I'd probably do it.

Final Pot: 11 BB
Main Pot: 10 BB, won by MP1.
Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to MP1.

--

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO calls.
If I'm in early position with two overcards, I think I'm going to bet practically any flop.

Turn: (5.20 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, Hero folds.

River: (7.20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP3 bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 9.20 BB
Main Pot: 9.20 BB, between MP3 and CO.

--

These weren't actually terribly difficult hands, but also having my choices reaffirmed helps.

tiltaholic · #2 11-08-2004, 12:07 AM

hi.
personally, i prefer the one hand at a time post. helps with the focus.

hand one. i'd bet the turn with only 2 opponents. when they check the river again, i'd bet the river.

hand two. the "rule" about calling one bet when the pot is big applies in situations where you actually have a hand. ace high doesn't count, especially given the flop action - so good fold.

hand three. i'd probably fold the turn too. but i think it's a pretty close call because you picked up gutshot outs.

-t

fairness · #3 11-08-2004, 12:15 AM

dude, try to keep the post to one hand. it just makes things easier for everyone. i have a couple problems with all these hands. hand 1, i like the flop bet. i really dont like the turn check. why are you afraid of that 4? that 4 is a good card for you. think about it, there are two 4s on the board, that leaves two more 4s in the deck. you opponents hold a total of 4 cards, the chances either of them have a four are really slim. you probably have the best hand, you can't give your opponents free cards here to outdraw you. btw, you generally want to use the free card play when you're drawing to a straight or a flush, not overcards. also by checking the turn you portray weakness and invite your opponents to bluff at you on the river. seeing how you took the free card, and the board double paired, and they both checked to you again, i think it's safe to bet out here. if either of them had a jack or a 4 they probably would have bet their fullhouse. by betting the turn you protect your hand, give your opponents a chance to fold.

EdSchurr · #4 11-08-2004, 01:15 AM

Yeah, I guess in hand one I'll have to be less timid.

In hand three, I think the pot is short .1BB to give the implied odds to call and draw, and just break even.

young nut · #5 11-08-2004, 02:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
dude, try to keep the post to one hand. it just makes things easier for everyone. i have a couple problems with all these hands. hand 1, i like the flop bet. i really dont like the turn check. why are you afraid of that 4? that 4 is a good card for you. think about it, there are two 4s on the board, that leaves two more 4s in the deck. you opponents hold a total of 4 cards, the chances either of them have a four are really slim. you probably have the best hand, you can't give your opponents free cards here to outdraw you. btw, you generally want to use the free card play when you're drawing to a straight or a flush, not overcards. also by checking the turn you portray weakness and invite your opponents to bluff at you on the river. seeing how you took the free card, and the board double paired, and they both checked to you again, i think it's safe to bet out here. if either of them had a jack or a 4 they probably would have bet their fullhouse. by betting the turn you protect your hand, give your opponents a chance to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. when I have position with overcards and it is checked to my again on the turn I bet out almost 100% of the time. There are two very important reasons for this. 1) it will hopefully eliminate hand that will outdraw you. and 2) you can check again at the river if checked back to you. You will sometimes have everyone beat with ace high, especially when they keep checking it to you.

Also with the board double pairing on the river, this gives you a great chance to bluff (assuming you don't have the best hand) Since you checked on the turn, they may have assumed you had the top pair but were afraid of trip 4's. If you come out betting the river, they may fear you have a monster and fold smaller pockets or hands of that nature.

sin808 · #6 11-08-2004, 02:05 AM

It's better to post one hand at a time, it's easier to read (for me anyway, I lose interest usually if there's more than 2).

hand 1: I would probably bet the turn , but I don't think there's anything wrong with checking. Depends on whether or not you think they'll fold or not.

hand 2: I think you played fine.

hand 3: looks ok as well