Almost there? KK hand

g29w · #1 11-04-2004, 04:17 AM

Villian is a TAG decent player.

Check PF/flop - setup for his bet postflop.
Check on turn - setup for his bet turn.
Reraise turn - get more money in.

Finally river, I should have bet less; I guess I thought I had him pot committed enough. Maybe $15 would be good.

How would you play this hand? At any point should I be worrying about possibly a set or AA?

I was thinking that I could also call the turn, then check the river and then reraise to win more money?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed)

BB ($16.45)
UTG ($31.05)
UTG+1 ($28.35)
MP1 ($42.45)
MP2 ($33.40)
MP3 ($74)
CO ($13.05)
Button ($49)
Hero ($49.20)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button raises to $2, Hero calls $1.75, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Button bets $7, Hero calls $7, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ($20.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $8, Hero raises to $16, Button calls $8.

River: ($52.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $24.2 (All-In), Button folds.

Final Pot: $76.70

mungpo · #2 11-04-2004, 04:47 AM

You won a nice pot. On the river, since you think you have the best hand, why not bet less. How about 1/2 the pot? Intise the person to throw in more chips.

phixxx · #3 11-04-2004, 04:55 AM

He did bet half the pot on the river.

xerostar · #4 11-04-2004, 05:04 AM

Or even better, if you can get a good read on him, with the flush card coming on the river, how bout CHECKING? He might go all in trying to steal the pot.

mungpo · #5 11-04-2004, 05:16 AM

Didn't notice that he bet half the pot. I should really look at the betting amounts better.

schwza · #6 11-04-2004, 02:46 PM

ewww.... i don't like this hand. the button raised a UTG+1 limper - he's probably got something he can call a reraise with.

i would lead out on this flop. there are ~1 million draws out there, and if it gets checked around and the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] hits on the turn, you got what you deserve. once button does you a favor and bets, i'd have raised it to ~22 for reasons listed above.

given that you check-called the flop, i'd have led out on the turn. you don't want to give a free card. since he bet, you should push. you don't want to let a draw (flush, OESD, pair+gutshot, etc) get there cheaply.

river is fine. he'll call with Jx (most likely AJ) enough here that pushing will be profitable, and he probably won't bet that hand with the board pairing and the flush draw getting there.

in general, your hand wasn't nearly strong enough to slowplay it as you did. it was very vulnerable to many draws (any J, A, [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9, or T likely kills your action or costs you your stack). bet it up. you should be bluffing frequently enough that there's a decent chance you'll get called.

tdomeski · #7 11-04-2004, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 calls $0.50, Button raises to $2, Hero calls $1.75

[/ QUOTE ]

You are asking for UTG to call with his low PP and bust you. What happens when an Ace hits the flop?

[ QUOTE ]
Button bets $7, Hero calls $7

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He could have 15 outs.

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Hero checks, Button bets $8, Hero raises to $16, Button calls $8.

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???? So you think you have the best hand here? You just gave his 15 outs one more card to bust you.

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River: ($52.50) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $24.2 (All-In), Button folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

He calls with a flush/boat and folds all of the hands that you beat.

g29w · #8 11-04-2004, 06:55 PM

PF - Didn't factor in UTG+1 low PP. At the same time, if UTG+1 hit a set, it would be easily recognizable and I would lay down my kings. By calling, I gambled on button having a decent PP (bet flop) or AK/AQ (semi-bluff flop).

My PF assumption was correct and he did bet. When the button pot bet, I knew he did not have a flush draw. This is b/c if you are on a flush draw and you get a free card - you take it instead of betting a pot sized bet. He either had a high pocket pair or possibly AK/AQ/AJ. If he had JJ or AA or AQh - I am in trouble, but even then by playing it the way I played it I could easily have a set/boat.

By not reraising or betting the flop I first concealed my head as a weak hand. Most likely I had button putting me on a flush or straight draw.

If at any point did UTG+1 call or raise the $7, I lay down my kings. I am not going into a 3 person pot with KK and no real chance of improvement.

Turn - I continued allowing button to follow his read of my flush draw. I then reraised to tell him that I may in fact be slowplaying a set.

River - By going all-in (which is actually the correct choice now that I think about it) button has to think 1) I slowplayed a set or 2) I don't have anything strong at all. Just in case he chooses 2) and I've facing a decent PP, I have KK.

The problem with playing my hand too agressively to deter draws is I could easily be the one in his position - unsure if my KK would stand up at the end. I either lose a big pot or win a small one. If everyone folds, I only come out with a measly $2-4.

If you disagree, please explain why. If this is a leak in my game I would love to fix it.

tdomeski · #9 11-04-2004, 07:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if UTG+1 hit a set, it would be easily recognizable and I would lay down my kings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, right.

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I gambled on button having a decent PP (bet flop) or AK/AQ (semi-bluff flop)

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your plan when an Ace flops?

[ QUOTE ]
When the button pot bet, I knew he did not have a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] bets here. A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] bets here. A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] bets here. A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] bets here.

[ QUOTE ]
if you are on a flush draw and you get a free card - you take it instead of betting a pot sized bet.

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Most people take a shot at the pot first.

[ QUOTE ]
I continued allowing button to follow his read of my flush draw. I then reraised to tell him that I may in fact be slowplaying a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

He probably isn't listening.

[ QUOTE ]
By going all-in (which is actually the correct choice now that I think about it) button has to think 1) I slowplayed a set or 2) I don't have anything strong at all. Just in case he chooses 2) and I've facing a decent PP, I have KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he calls you lose. If he folds you would have won if it went check/check or check/bet/call.

[ QUOTE ]
I either lose a big pot or win a small one.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is why you don't bet the river.

g29w · #10 11-04-2004, 08:02 PM

If UTG+1 has set - UTG+1 will bet flop or call button's bet. Either way, I'm not playing a 3 person pot.
Am I suppose to reraise every $2 PF bet, to give the low PP bad odds and make every PF bet above $2?

Ace flops - I will c/f or go for cheap showdown. I'm sticking with my read; A = KK no win. Doesn't matter what I do, A is still going to be a dangerous card no matter if I reraise or not.

AQh, ATh - taking a chance; if turn hit heart I may fold. On the other hand, a heart could just be as dangerous for him - seeing as I could be the one of the draw.
A9h - Button wouldn't raise to $2.

If you were to reverse roles, I don't know what my play can possibly scream except slowplay.

If I don't bet, and he does have AA or hit his flush - my fake boat could have gotten him to fold.

Most of the time I prefer to check if I'm last to act. Being first to act, you have the chance of him folding - especially can't show any weakness with my slowplay.

There are reasons to bet the river. Blocking bet, value bet. Have you ever been called by a weaker hand on a river bet?