A Contentious (Interesting?) Live Hand

Holm Fries · #1 11-01-2004, 01:55 PM

Two days after a $6-12 session at Canterbury, a friend and I can't stop discussing this hand. He was, and continues to be, baffled and angered by my play.

Table is slightly on the loose side (3-5 players per flop usually) and just at the mid-point between passive and aggressive (with myself and my friend providing the bulk of the aggression). I am getting a lot of respect as I have been showing down quality hands. My friend is getting a little less respect for some reason (he may be a bit overly aggressive). The third player in this hand is way too loose, but seems to play pretty solidly post-flop.

Folded to me and I raise in the CO with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. My friend three bets from the button, the BB calls two more and I call.

The flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

The BB bets, I call and my friend calls.

Turn is the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

BB bets, I raise, my friend folds and the BB calls.

River is the 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

BB checks and throws out a preemptive call. I check behind.

I would really appreciate some commentary on the play by both of us in this hand.

Results in far below in this post (sorry I am an idiot and can't figure out the white thing):

BB shows J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
My buddy is incensed that he mucked 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

btspider · #2 11-01-2004, 02:17 PM

I think your flop call was the worst of your 3 options. Folding would be best with your friend left to act. A raise is preferable to calling since you may be able to fold overcards from your friend.. and clean up some outs. You don't have much showdown value unimproved though once a loose passive bets the flop.. which is why I favor the fold. You are hoping he has 2x or a pocket pair here.

I'm not sure why your friend just called the flop either. I'd be raising this. He really shouldn't be too mad. He gave up the initiative in this hand by playing the flop passively.

On the turn (7 BB pot I believe).. your raise gives you 3 more outs.. since your friend's likely holding is 2 overcards (with better showdown value than your own holding). It may scare BB into folding 2x or a pocket pair. So if he's a bit weak postflop, I like it. It would be even better if you could beat Ace high in a showdown though.. but BB could very well have a worse hand than K high on a rare occasion.

I'll see what others say. I don't like the flop action, but the turn decision with a thinking player and weak player involved is interesting.

For white text, use the Font Color table.

MoreWineII · #3 11-01-2004, 02:35 PM

I really don't like the flop call. I'd raise to clean up your outs (AK, AQ are likely hands for your friend)/buy a free turn card/win the hand right there. Or fold if you think your friend has a monster. Both options beat calling, imo.

Your friend might need to call a waaambulance. He didn't play his hand very well, so he really only should be blaming himself.

I make it a point to play the same way against my friends as I would anyone else at the table. In fact, some of the biggest pots I've ever won have been vs. a friend(s). And I've thrown away countless winners to friends' bets. Hell, I mucked what would have been a jackpot hand from the blind once through a friend's raise. *Stuff* happens.

Holm Fries · #4 11-01-2004, 02:36 PM

Good point about the flop call - we haven't gotten into that piece as much. I was anticipating a check, then a bet from me and a raise from the button that would knock the BB out. I think it was more of a knee-jerk to the BB coming alive. I will be interested to more opinions as well.

btspider · #5 11-01-2004, 02:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Good point about the flop call - we haven't gotten into that piece as much. I was anticipating a check, then a bet from me and a raise from the button that would knock the BB out.

[/ QUOTE ]

you have to worry about your friend more than the BB (if the BB checks). your friend will auto-raise most of his hands, so a bet with a weak hand (vs a PF 3-bet.. even if your raise was just a steal) accomplishes nothing. check behind the BB. fold if the BB calls your friends bet. if the BB folds, either fold respecting the PF raise or check-raiset if your friend will release overcards on the turn. if he'll call you down b/c you often get tricky heads-up with him, just bail on the flop and save your money.

Holm Fries · #6 11-01-2004, 07:52 PM

.

MrFeelNothin · #7 11-01-2004, 08:01 PM

ummm, auto-muck on the flop? i dont see how putting in any more bets into this pot whether betting or raising would be profitable. The BB just bet out into a PFR and reraiser, doesnt this signal strength? And regardless your friend likely has you dominated or possibly drawing dead. I check-fold.

Yerma · #8 11-01-2004, 08:13 PM

Your friend played this well and he really should be mad at you. I am guessing that you are so cutthroat with your friend that you are willing to hand piles of your chips over to some unknown fool at the other end of the table just to make sure your buddy doesn't get to "outplay" you.

You should both have called the turn.

Holm Fries · #9 11-01-2004, 09:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your friend played this well and he really should be mad at you. I am guessing that you are so cutthroat with your friend that you are willing to hand piles of your chips over to some unknown fool at the other end of the table just to make sure your buddy doesn't get to "outplay" you.

You should both have called the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just the opposite. We check hands down heads up. So any poor play is solely attributable to me being a jackass.