Question about Party/Empire 15/30:

[slogger]

[cross-posted in Small Stakes forum]

I am currently grinding it out at Party/Empire 3/6 and 5/10 (full and 6-max), and I'm happy wiht my results (particularly on 3/6).

I have noticed that the 5/10 full-ring games are a little tougher than I would have expected. I have also read in these forums that the 15/30 is actually an easier game.

Is this really the case? I'm not about to make the jump at the moment (the bankroll is more than sufficient for 5/10, but I'd like to at least double it before spending any significant time at 15/30), but when people talk about the 15/30, are they saying that it's easy relative to other mid-high stakes games, or do they really mean that the Party 5/10 is tougher than the Party 15/30?

If so, should bankroll be my only concern here? How does the 15/30 differ from the 3/6? How does the 10/20 compare?

Thanks for all input/links to other discussions on this topic. Cheers!

[Kevin J]

The 15-30 is definitely looser on average than either the 3-6 or 5-10. In fact, I had a hard time finding any 5-10 game with over 30% taking a flop (not including my numbers). Many of them are in the teens. +30% is easy to find at 15-30.

However, looser does not necessarily mean easier. The 15-30 games are much more aggressive. A lot of it is bad aggression, but you still need to know how to take advantage of it in order to capitalize. I find it very difficult to get to showdown at 15-30. Mainly because I don't handle the aggression well. Mostly, I do a poor job of handling "bad" aggression, which turns into good aggression against me. If that makes any sense.

[Ezcheeze]

The 15/30 and 10/20 games are worlds apart from 3/6 and even 5/10. 15/30 and 10/20 are much harder games to beat. They have much more aggression and there alot more decent to good players in these limits, and alot more thinking players in general.

-Ezcheeze

[chainSmoker]

for me, moving up to 15-30 brought along much larger bankroll swings. the game is much more aggressive. it's very rare to find a calling station fish; usually, the fish are more like super LAG players who grossly overplay stuff, but charge you a lot to see their hands. i find that it's a lot harder to let go of hands on the turn to checkraises, etc. because so many times, they're full of sh*t. but it goes in phases, 1 week pick off a bunch of bluffs/semibluffs, next week i run into set after set after made hand, etc.

personally, i like to have $10k minimum in my roll to play 2 or 3 tables of 15-30. that's probably a little higher than other people, but i prefer to have a fat cushion to fall back on.

-ak

[4thstreetpete]

I've made some posts in the past about how horrible the players are at 15/30. Sometimes when I read the hand histories my jaw just drops. I've also stated in the past that I found the 5/10 games are a bit tougher. But is that really the case?

There are some people here that have made the jump to 15/30 and got hammered so I wouldn't recommend just jumping into the 15/30 games right away. The 15/30 games are very aggressive and for some people they won't be able to adjust to it. The game might not be for you.

For example, there have been many times where people will checkraise the turn with nothing more than a flush or straight draw, in hopes that you will fold your top pair. It can get very expensive so you'll have to use your best judgement.

I find that I've changed my play quite a bit than when I was playing 3/6 or 5/10. Hands that I would've never taken to showdown with before but now I will more often.

Just be aware that players are way more aggressive at this level but some can be overly aggressive. This is where your notes on players become vital.

I would recommend that you get yourself some experience with shorthanded play first. Good luck.

[NMcNasty]

I recently tried multitable 15/30 in which I did very poorly, despite being a winning multitable 5/10 player and an experienced 15/30 single table player. Reads become far more important as you move up to higher stakes. At 5/10 I think you could still profit without any reads at all if you play extremely tight poker and treat every player as the average 5/10 player. The same definitely does not hold for 15/30, even though it seems players still play terrible hands.

[Peter_rus]

[ QUOTE ]
I would recommend that you get yourself some experience with shorthanded play first.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very good advice. I've played 10/20 and 15/30 SH and find myself in 15/30 full like fish in the water. I'm still running more than 4BB/100 after 25K (i post my stats earlier here in the forum) and im full of dreams my EV won't be lower than 3BB/100 long term. I had never thought that WR can be so high in full game. In SH - yes, but not full.

I suppose 5/10 full is defenitely tougher than 15/30 and 5/10 (and 3/6 but less likely) are probably the most tight full games in Party.

After 15/30 SH agression in 15/30 full seems to be not big. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[jomatty]

the 5 game is much easier than the 15 in my opinion. The 5 plays so much more passively that you can play on i would say half of the relative bankroll (in BB's) than that needed to play the 15-30. It is so much more agg that you really have to be careful as its a fine line between getting pushed around and getting caught up and making weak call downs. When so many people are playing so aggressively it is easy (and sometimes somewhat correct) to turn into a calling station.
Anyways, you will find yourself in a lot more marginal situations in the bigger games and thats what makes the game tough, right?
matty