How to rig on-line poker?

[Mammux]

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Ever wonder how much of the time the pro isn't the one playing under his/her name?

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I played Howard Lederer a couple of times on Full Tilt. I'm pretty convinced it was actually him. He would comment on hands he played a couple of months back at tourneys etc.

-Magnus

[BobK]

They could rig the game against long term winning players by the simple expedient of examining the deck before dealing the hands. Simply reshuffling if the winner of the hand would be the one they are targeting.
If they do that for say every 3rd or 4th potential winner by that player, I would think it would require more than several hundred thousand hands to detect, and that individual will probably have given up playing at that site long before accumulating that many hands.
Reducing the long term winner's win rate would allow the cardroom to take more drop, since this winning player is no longer taking money off the table.

It shouldn't have little or no impact on overall card distribution I wouldn't think.

After saying all that, I tend to think most sites would not want to damage their reputation and kill the golden goose if a rogue programmer working for them were to go public with the scheme.

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
They could rig the game against long term winning players by the simple expedient of examining the deck before dealing the hands. Simply reshuffling if the winner of the hand would be the one they are targeting.
If they do that for say every 3rd or 4th potential winner by that player, I would think it would require more than several hundred thousand hands to detect, and that individual will probably have given up playing at that site long before accumulating that many hands.
Reducing the long term winner's win rate would allow the cardroom to take more drop, since this winning player is no longer taking money off the table.

It shouldn't have little or no impact on overall card distribution I wouldn't think.

After saying all that, I tend to think most sites would not want to damage their reputation and kill the golden goose if a rogue programmer working for them were to go public with the scheme.

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yes, it would have an effect on the distribution of cards simply because winning hands often start with strong holecards. if you're killing 1/4 of my winners, i'll notice that across the board i'm getting dealt 1/4 less AA/KK/AK/QQ etc. and more random cards. obviously this would take many hundreds of thousands of hands to observe, but there is no way, over an infinite number of deals, to shortchange a player VIA the cards without it showing up in statistical analysis.

fim

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
They could rig the game against long term winning players by the simple expedient of examining the deck before dealing the hands. Simply reshuffling if the winner of the hand would be the one they are targeting.
If they do that for say every 3rd or 4th potential winner by that player, I would think it would require more than several hundred thousand hands to detect, and that individual will probably have given up playing at that site long before accumulating that many hands.
Reducing the long term winner's win rate would allow the cardroom to take more drop, since this winning player is no longer taking money off the table.

It shouldn't have little or no impact on overall card distribution I wouldn't think.

After saying all that, I tend to think most sites would not want to damage their reputation and kill the golden goose if a rogue programmer working for them were to go public with the scheme.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would they want to kill long term winners? Long term winners produce alot more rake than short term losers.

This whole idea of rigging is obsurd. Casino's are making an assload in rake, they won't risk that full assload/year for an extra 1/8th assload/year.

[Paul2432]

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Organized crime could and will find a way to manipulate the off shore, unregulated, groups for and you will not even know.

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Well what is that way? That is my question.

Paul

[Paul2432]

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Its simple. Create hardcore action flops and bad beat miracle rivers so that bad players keep getting their undeserved wins to keep feeding the rake. Keep all of your programmers under close watch, kill the ones that try to speak out, and blackmail the ones thinking about leaving. This way, anyone who believes this conspiracy will be too stupid to prove it and anyone who is smart enough to prove it wouldn't believe such a stupid idea.

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I think if draws are completing at higher rates than expected, or coordinated boards are occurring more often than expected, that would be pretty easy to prove with a lot of hand histories.

Paul

[mmcd]

I don't see why they would want to rig the game anyway.

Think of how many absolutely atrocious players you have seen on Party.

Now of all of those players, how long do you think it will take the "average" one to go broke?

(Some of the players at the 15/30 level are so bad that if they played semi-full time for the whole year I'm sure they'd lose at least 500k)

They would want to rig the game to keep bad players in action longer, giving them more players overall (many of whom are bad), thereby attracting even more players to the site...

I'm not saying this is happening or anything, just that the motivation is there.

[magiluke]

I can see where you are going with that (Even though I don't play on Party), but how does a poker site know who to rig it for? How do they tell who the "bad" players are? Do they go by their bankroll? Do they keep exhaustive, Poker Tracker caliber stats on everyone? What if the person they were going to give a miracle river to folds, do they switch the cards and give the game to someone else?

[magiluke]

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This whole idea of rigging is obsurd. Casino's are making an assload in rake, they won't risk that full assload/year for an extra 1/8th assload/year.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is just funny.


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but there is no way, over an infinite number of deals, to shortchange a player VIA the cards without it showing up in statistical analysis.

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Also, I absolutely agree. Certain people with five billion hands on Poker Tracker probably would have noticed something by now.

[RayGarlington]

How about this: deal a fair game, but have special client software that plays against the real players, only with the advantage of knowing everyone's cards.