Most significant battle of the 20th Century?

[daveymck]

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The Somme
It's plausible to argue No Somme == No WWII. The carnage and waste of human life was greater than any WWII battle, and left all the participants (understandably) so traumatized that they spawned large influential pacificism movements back in their homelands afterwards.

Had France and Britain not been gripped by pacifism after WWI, they may have stopped Hitler before it was too late.

The Battle of the Atlantic
Before Hitler invaded Russia, he was after Britain. And Britain almost certainly would have fallen without U.S. support via transports of supplies across the Atlantic. And German U-boats did their damndest to sink them all... and lost. We got the upper hand on the U-Boats and we supplied the Brits with enough to survive. They held off Germany until Hitler got frustrated and turned East.

If Britain falls.... well we might all be speaking German right now.



natedogg

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I think the battle/war that more changed the face of europe in the second half of the last century was the civil war in russia, had the white army won then there may not have been a cold war and who knows how the world would be now.

With regard to the Battle of the Atlantic, being British we would argue the Battle of Britain going on at the time was of more improtance as it held back any potential invasion. One thing we were taught in history is that Hitler was not that keen to invade Britain as we were part of the pure race he was wanting to take forward, he would have much rather we surrendered without an invasion.

I think Pearl Harbour is a key moment as well as it finally forced the US hand to actually do activlly fight instead of just lending support.

I dont think it was just the Somme that led to the change in politics, World War 1 overall was a mass butchering and also was the first probably in the media spolight with the public getting a feel for what war was about, as well as whole communities having their menfolk wiped out due to the way the army was organised.

Hitler could have been nipped in the bud but the British and French didnt come down on him they let him inch forward testing them all the way but no resistance came so he was able to invade Poland.

[El Barto]

Sorry, Stalingrad does not qualify, there was no inherent value to that ground, so win or lose the result of the German push eventually stalling and being pushed back would have been the same. (The same is true of Gettyburg in the Civil War - a dramatic battle but not the turning point or the defining battle)

Midway is an excellent choice for the Pacific War, because the great loss of ships by Japan did have a permanent impact on the following years of warfare. Much credit must be given to the code breakers who got us into position to achieve this victory.

In WWI, the collapse of the Austrian forces in the southern theatre is my choice. It helped create the untenable position of Germany on the Wetern front. No one Western front battle made much difference in any real sense, it was the supply and support situation inside Germany that led to the eventual outcome (true even if the US had decided to sit out the whole war).

[Lawrence Ng]

I would also agree that a pivotal turning point was the battle of Stalingrad.

Has anyone seen Band of Brothers? This is a wonderful series and the DVD collection is worth every dollar.

[daveymck]

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I would also agree that a pivotal turning point was the battle of Stalingrad.

Has anyone seen Band of Brothers? This is a wonderful series and the DVD collection is worth every dollar.

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It is an excellent series (if as usual forgets the US had allies) the interviews with the veterens really made it complete.

[W00lygimp]

Well so stalingrad was not a pivotal battle you say? It doesn't take 3 million men to occupy a country, the US is occupying Iraq with less around 100,000 (sure Russia is a much larger country). Germany lost millions of men that winter, definately a major blow. The main point of the invasion wasn't to take Russia, it was to take the critical oil fields in the caucus. Also Modern US troops and Nazi Troops have different strategies and restrictions. If a city, St. Petersburg for instance, started revolting the Nazi's would surely have leveled the city in a heartbeat. US troops can do no such thing, do you understand Russia could not mount an effective resistance? Russian's were poor, there weren't AK47's in every household like Iraq.
Look at the other countries Germany conquered, sure they had a resistance but you can't resist an army that large... Germany had 5 million men on it's western front...5 million... Most died in the winter.

My point is Hitler would have had no problem killing every Russian citizen if he knew he would win the war.
Your theory that the Russians would not let themselves be conquered and would resist to the last is not viable.

[russian ace]

St. Petersburg was never taken. It was under siege for over 2 years, millions died of starvation but it was never taken. Also one of the main problems for German army was supplies. The Russian partisan movement was very effective in destroying bridges and attacking supply trains.

[W00lygimp]

I never said St. Petersburg was taken. I was giving an example of what the Nazi's would have done against an effective resistance, They would level the cities.

[Rick Nebiolo]

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Has anyone seen Band of Brothers? This is a wonderful series and the DVD collection is worth every dollar.

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The series was great but read the book by Ambrose too. Probably his best.

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

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I'll at least mention the naval battle of Midway since the deciding factor was practically luck.

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Another lucky factor was that Japanese fighters were near the surface annihilating an attack by our low flying torpedo planes. When a few squadrons of our slow flying dive bombers from another carrier attacked shortly after, the fighters were too low to respond.

Pretty good link here:

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/e...dway/mid-4.htm

~ Rick

[Sponger15SB]

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Ali-Frazier

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Hogan-Andre was better

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apparently you guys missed holyfield vs. morrer II

uh ok that was the only live fight i've ever seen.