Good time for a stop and go? Under 2xBB with 15 players left...

WinBig · #1 10-25-2004, 10:32 AM

$20 NL tourney on Party Poker. 1800 entries and we're down to the final 15. My goal is to win the tourney and with the blinds at 10000/20000 and a stack of 35000 I will be pushing in the BB with almost any decent hand. Folded to the SB who limps in. I have JT suited and push. He thinks for a little bit and calls the extra 15000 since he is getting almost 4-1 odds.

Results are 45 offsuit for him and a flop off K22, turn is blank and river is a 5 knocking me out. I thought the limp by him preflop was weak but he had a stack of about 100,000 and obviously didn't care risking another 10% of his stack to see a flop or another 15% to call my all-in (but he was getting good odds for that).

My first question is how would you play 45 offsuit in this situation? Seems to me that this is an all-in or fold situation with a short stack in the BB. 45 offsuit is not a strong hand and would be at best a coin flip against almost any hand I could be holding.

My second question is whether this is a good spot for a stop and go? I was going all-in with that hand no matter what and since he limped he might fold on a scary flop. If I had 45 I would probably not stick around to see the turn or river on a flop like K22 but getting 4-1 odds could be worth it. Any thoughts?

WinBig · #2 10-25-2004, 02:12 PM

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Chief911 · #3 10-25-2004, 02:15 PM

Well, I'd say if your intention was to get him to fold, you have to wait til the flop to get him to fold, he's not going to fold to another 15k raise once he completes.

Why not see a flop, and either execute a stop and go, or maybe you even hit your hand. /shrug.

Nick

david050173 · #4 10-25-2004, 02:47 PM

The SB should bet the flop so I don't think you would get a chance to do a stop and go.

Lloyd · #5 10-25-2004, 03:10 PM

I have definitely found that on PP people call all-ins with way too many hands, and they fold on the flop too often. Certainly, if someone makes it to the final 15 he's probably a decent player. But I like a stop and go here.

If I'm him, I'd consider folding here. He knows you're likely to go all-in and his hand is at best a coin flip, and most likely a dog. 15% of his stack seems (to me) an awful lot for such a hand. Part of my decision would be based on other stacks but that's my gut feeling.

gergery · #6 10-25-2004, 03:34 PM

You should have checked preflop and gotten all your chips in no matter what the flop. JTs is good enough to get all your chips in with, but not so strong that you want him in the pot with you.

SB has 54o, he puts you on random hand. 54o is 1.6 to 1 dog vs. random hand. If he gets all in with you he risks 35k to win 65k. That is 1.8 to 1 So getting all in with you is EV positive for him. He knows you have odds to call, so he limps figuring to push any flop (if hes good) knowing you’ll miss most flops and fold.

You push was very bad. There is zero chance he’ll fold (ok, at $20 entry some complete fish might fold), since he must risk 15k to 75k, or 5:1. The key thing here is that if you have a better hand than him then its EV+ to push in and get him to call. But there are so many chips in the pot relative to you stack that its even more EV+ if he folds.

Note: you can’t stop and go if he acts first on flop. But you have the right idea.

--Greg