Etiquette - Educating the Fish

[Freudian]

You are correct that in the vast majority of cases the coaching is done to berate the fish-who-won-the-pot-with-a-silly play. And then of course it is in your own interest to shut up the coach.

But if a fish asks a poker question (should I raise with KK preflop?) and someone answers them honestly, there is no real damage done. The improvement done to the fish's game is minimal and the mood at the table is if anything better, and not worse. Yet the the most rabid "i'm a good player, let's not educate the figh" players would react to the honest answer in this case.

I don't particularly appreciate those that out of the blue decide to hold a poker lecture at the table, but answering questions from fish is ok with me.

[jdl22]

I'm with Lori. I have rarely educated bad players. The only exceptions I can think of are when they think that they should have won the hand and didn't and then asked a rules question. Common examples are the board double pairing and them having a lower pair and their kicker being better but not playing.

So I voted for the third option, but I think you are blowing it out of proportion. People get too freaked out by 2+2 being known. TOP is a pretty well known book and you still see plenty of people playing poorly. In some cases they own some good poker books and still suck.

I highly doubt 2+2 would allow a sticky telling posters not to tell others about this site. Why would they do that?

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]

I highly doubt 2+2 would allow a sticky telling posters not to tell others about this site. Why would they do that?

[/ QUOTE ]

They have decided they have sold enough books already? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Lawrence Ng]

I believe that poker should be a friendly game and yes I have educated people in live B&M games before, but not to the extent of what you think.

I've played in 10-20, 20-40 games with complete noobs. I mean real noobs. They have absolutely no clue how to play except they do know the ranking of hands. They are very friendly folks who come to play the game and want to learn about it. So if they are sitting next to me, I will explain everything from the betting rounds, to check, call, raise, or fold, to putting a chip on their hand so the dealer doesn't swipe it away, to putting turning over their cards if they are unsure whether or not they have a winning/losing hand and let the dealer decide.

I do not teach them about pot odds, whether or not they should call or raise, nor do I ever ask to see their hands. Though one time I did have this nice lady beside show me her hand while I was also in the hand asking me if she should fold. She had Q-3 offsuit and on the turn was drawing dead. I did not know what to say, but the pit declared her hand dead and it was good thing too since she was drawing dead.

The thing is new players are probably nervous enough already coming into a game they have no clue about and the last thing they need is for people to intimidate on a social level. They know they will most likely lose, but to make the game unfriendly for them just drives them away faster.

What I really hope these new players do is get lucky on a pot by sucking out. Then they think either 1. they get lucky and like the game. 2. play good and continue to play. If they never win a hand after dropping 30 - 50 BB worth of buy-in, they most likely most play again. And for sure if the table comadarie is very unsocialable it will give them a very nasty first impression of the game.

[RydenStoompala]

[ QUOTE ]
What does the forum think about educating the other players at the table?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is the dumbest, most pathetic and dorky thing you can possibly do. It is a habit shared by mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging baboon people who mine used gum for a living and are still searching for a biological link to humans.

Ooops...Was that out loud?

[Adde]

The big problem is not the Coach, nor the Fish under attack. The big problem is the other players who almost always tightens up.

The other day I was at a coach table, with good Pokertracker data for 5 of the (other) players, all ranging from 35%-50% flops seen. After leaving the table I examined the hand histories for this session only (some 100 hands), and all of these players had gone down to 15-25% after the coach started his lesson.

Adde

[Emperor]

This is my pet peave! I dunno why it is, if I am disciplined I just turn chat off, but usually it goes like this...

Some Table Coach berates a Fish:

I then..

1. "You gotta be in to win!"
2. "Family Pots are fun!"
3. "Oh this is the Poka SKool Table?"
4. "Table coaching is bad etiquette"
5. "How much for pvt lessons? Care to go headsup?"
6. "STFU! You're scaring the fish!"

7. I just learned this and it is my personal favorite at putting the whole table on tilt...

"I love Haliburton, how bout you?"

then follow up with

"I voted for the 87 Billion before I voted against it"

Now that you have all the libs yelling at you, time to switch...

"Dubya is gonna reinstate the draft!"

At this point the table will go full tilt and VPIP will go through the roof...


My goal is to take all the attention off the table coach if he just won't stfu.

Besides Tilting is fun...

[ncboiler]

[ QUOTE ]
Then I suppose you are against the existance of these forums (since this forum is a great educator of fish) also and against those that give advice that help other posters here improve their game?

Personally I don't talk about it at the table but have no problems with others giving advice at the table. I do however react when the "education" comes in the form of berating the poor players. I want the poor players to enjoy being at my table so I have no problems defending them at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

I second that emotion. Actually when these fish loose their first deposit they are done...finished with pooker. If they can make a little bit of money then maybe they will be around long enough for me to have a slice of the their pie.

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
Posting in a forum designed to help fellow poker players about not want to help fellow poker players is so ironic I want to cry

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if you have any sense of community.

[LoveNh8]

You EDUCATE the fish?????????
You EDUcate them?

OH MY GOD you are a moron.
My jaw is in my LAP.

That's like asking for a pay cut.
JEEBUS you are a moron.

I literally cannot close my mouth due to jaw slackness.
If you sat around for a week and tried to think up REALLY stupid sh** to do at poker,
this would top the list.

STOP.
NOW.