Did I bet this correctly?

slaman · #1 10-22-2004, 11:58 AM

I like to look at the hands I've lost money on to see where I went wrong using PokerTracker.

All I can say with this hand is that I had a read on the guy - he was a calling station - but normally tight pre-flop.

I won't post results, but please analyze my play. Thanks.

I betlarge to make it expensive to draw out any flushes or straights... I put him on at LEAST top-pair with a decent kicker, but I had the best kicker...

$50 NL Hold'em - Wednesday, October 20, 01:21:02 EDT 2004
Table Life line (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: skitchi ( $146.37 )
Seat 5: lesismore ( $113.1 )
Seat 6: jbowl11 ( $80 )
Seat 8: dumbred ( $143.85 )
Seat 10: sabres_jmd ( $43 )
Seat 3: PokerSlaman ( $130.95 )
Seat 1: bradfizzle ( $50 )
Seat 7: dahou ( $45.5 )
Seat 9: foundahbody ( $65.15 )
Seat 2: CouldItBe ( $12 )
foundahbody posts small blind [$0.5].
sabres_jmd posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to PokerSlaman [ As Jd ]
bradfizzle folds.
CouldItBe folds.
PokerSlaman raises [$2].
skitchi calls [$2].
lesismore folds.
jbowl11 folds.
dahou folds.
dumbred folds.
foundahbody folds.
sabres_jmd folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6d, 7d, Jh ]
PokerSlaman bets [$4].
skitchi calls [$4].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4s ]
PokerSlaman bets [$5].
skitchi calls [$5].
** Dealing River ** [ 8d ]
PokerSlaman bets [$15].
skitchi calls [$15].

Richie Rich · #2 10-22-2004, 12:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I betlarge to make it expensive to draw out any flushes or straights...

[/ QUOTE ]
Take a look at the action again.

(1) You bet the pot on the flop...fine. But any good str8/flush draw will make this call, especially with position on you.
(2) Next you bet less than half the pot on the turn...are you really trying to protect your TPTK against any draws?
(3) The river is what I don't get...that 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] completes a lot of str8/flush draws...perhaps even gives your opponent two pair. IMO, betting $15 wasn't a good move because only a better hand will call/raise, while a second best hand is very likely to fold.

ps~ in my PT, AJo is a losing hand

turkkito · #3 10-22-2004, 01:15 PM

No you didn't. Here's what I think:

Preflop: I don't like your raise. You don't have good position and AJo is not a strong hand. If you however are going to raise, don't raise the minimun, make a real raise: $3 or $4.
Flop: Fine.
Turn: If you want to protect your hand against draws you need to bet more, something like $10.
River: 8d is just about the worst card that could come, and yet you make large'ish bet here. I'd check here and see what the other guy does. If you hate the idea of being bluffed out of the pot you might consider making a small freezer bet, but there's a good possibility you're behind here.

amoeba · #4 10-22-2004, 01:22 PM

bet too big on the river.

bet a blocking bet.

slaman · #5 10-22-2004, 11:45 PM

Thank you for the replies. Two lessons I learned from the replies here - I should have just called, not raised in my position with AJo. Secondly, I needed to bet half the pot on the turn to make drawing more expensive.

Now the results: He had two pair, 7's and 8's. He wasn't drawing... he was making horrid calls. The $15 bet should have been a check/fold? or a check/call? or a smaller bet? I bet half the pot at that point...

77rules · #6 10-23-2004, 07:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Now the results: He had two pair, 7's and 8's. He wasn't drawing... he was making horrid calls. The $15 bet should have been a check/fold? or a check/call? or a smaller bet? I bet half the pot at that point...

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure he was making such a huge mistake really. True, he's getting something like 2.5:1 when he calls the flop, not nearly enough on his 5 outer. But with your stack size, it must be pretty entizing to stay in ...

If he figures you for TPTK, not unlikely considering your betting on the turn, he's got 9 outs (str8, trips, two pair) on the turn call. The odds for the call aren't that much off, and the implied odds are good.

I think he wimped out on the river. Either he figures you for TPTK, and then he should have moved in on you, or he figures you for a str8 or a flush, in which case he shouldn't have called in the first place.

Niwa · #7 10-23-2004, 10:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No you didn't. Here's what I think:

Preflop: I don't like your raise. You don't have good position and AJo is not a strong hand. If you however are going to raise, don't raise the minimun, make a real raise: $3 or $4.
Flop: Fine.
Turn: If you want to protect your hand against draws you need to bet more, something like $10.
River: 8d is just about the worst card that could come, and yet you make large'ish bet here. I'd check here and see what the other guy does. If you hate the idea of being bluffed out of the pot you might consider making a small freezer bet, but there's a good possibility you're behind here.

[/ QUOTE ]

That pretty much sums it up. I dont like the last raise at all. Too many hands are better than yours at this point (river bet).

bunky9590 · #8 10-23-2004, 12:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Did I bet this correctly?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I sure didn't like the minraise Preflop. Really weak, if you are going to raise, make it 4 to go.

Okay, flop you bet the pot, which is a whole 4 bucks. You have TPTK and are on a draw heavy board. I personally would bet like 8 bucks.

Yep, its an over bet and you are representing more than you have but that in itself may make him fold. If not, lets see what the turn brings, he does have position. Thats why I don't like the PF minraise. I have more betting leverage on the flop if I raised coming in for real.

The turn is a relative brick and you put out a really weak $5.00 bet. I personally would bet abot 2/3 the pot. If he calls, I have no intention of putting anymore bets out there unless he bets the river small. I may however use the blocking bet of about 1/3 the pot on the river, and obviously fold to a raise.

Sorry, but didn't like this hand from jumpstreet.

slaman · #9 10-23-2004, 04:25 PM

Thanks a lot guys! I really learned a lot by going through my really poorly played hands, and my really well-played hands.

When you say that the river blocking bet is 1/3? Where is this number from? Arbitrary? Personal experience? A specific theory?

So, in short, I should have realized that I was on a draw-heavy board when the flop came and bet it extremely strong rather than to keep building the pot.

I'm going to go through a few more of my hands and hopefully get some more opinions from you all! Thanks.

bunky9590 · #10 10-23-2004, 04:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When you say that the river blocking bet is 1/3? Where is this number from? Arbitrary? Personal experience? A specific theory?

[/ QUOTE ]

It winds up being the amount I use for a bloking bet from personal experience, its also the relative amount I use to value bet a monster and get the person to make a crying call. So if you play with me enough, you're 50% sure I'm blocking, but the other 50% I could have the nuts or close to it. So you would be real reluctant to raise me without the goods.