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#12
10-20-2004, 11:49 AM
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Re: Interesting tournament hand
[ QUOTE ]
UTG gets my vote for a "What are you thinking?" slap to the back of the head. UTG (Butcher #1): -Needs to fold PF. -Cannot flat call with TPTK and draws on the board. -Cannot call the all-in with a drawlicious board like this. MP1 (not so bad): -Don't min-raise with your threes. I understand trying to juice the pot in case you hit your flop, but most of the time you're just leaking chips. -Good all-in here. Draws abound, and your set is behind all of them. Small Blind: -I'm on the fence about calling this pre-flop (who I think is you). The odds are that if the flop hits you at all, it will be so you can draw to a str8 or non-nut flush (or both as it turns out). -Why bet t500 if your intention is to go all-in if you are reraised? (Honest question here. What are you trying to do with this bet? Would you be better off pushing with your draw?) Sorry for the outcome. Cards happen. [/ QUOTE ] Yea, I was the guy with the draw. Looking at this flop, you are probably right that I should have considered pushing all-in on the flop. I suppose I thought a pot-sized bet would be sufficient to take it down, but an all-in probably would have been the correct play. As for the call PF, I wasn't too afraid of either player and thought I would take a look at a flop. The guy with the 3s was pretty weak and I knew if he missed the flop he would be easy to drive out and the other player with the AJ was a LAG type player who could very well be in there with any cards and my KQ could very well be better than his cards. I know he would have raised with AK or AQ. 
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#13
10-20-2004, 11:52 AM
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Re: Interesting tournament hand
I swear, I think that the hand convertor screwed this hand up because here is the original transcript:
PokerStars Game #785196915: Tournament #3071049, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2004/10/20 - 08:51:25 (ET) Table '3071049 2' Seat #4 is the button Seat 2: mirri (2125 in chips) Seat 3: you-cant-win (1458 in chips) Seat 4: theguzzler (1710 in chips) Seat 5: SixgunSam (2950 in chips) Seat 6: bigeddie26 (1490 in chips) Seat 7: BigBob868 (2535 in chips) Seat 8: stikinitinu (1600 in chips) Seat 9: crazyman22 (4140 in chips) SixgunSam: posts small blind 50 bigeddie26: posts big blind 100 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to SixgunSam [Kd Qd] BigBob868: calls 100 stikinitinu: folds crazyman22: raises 100 to 200 mirri: folds you-cant-win: folds theguzzler: folds SixgunSam: calls 150 bigeddie26: folds BigBob868: calls 100 *** FLOP *** [3d Ts Jd] SixgunSam: bets 500 BigBob868: calls 500 crazyman22: raises 3440 to 3940 and is all-in SixgunSam: calls 2250 and is all-in BigBob868: calls 1835 and is all-in *** TURN *** [3d Ts Jd] [5d] *** RIVER *** [3d Ts Jd 5d] [5c] *** SHOW DOWN *** SixgunSam: shows [Kd Qd] (a flush, King high) crazyman22: shows [Js Ac] (two pair, Jacks and Fives) SixgunSam collected 830 from side pot BigBob868: shows [3h 3c] (a full house, Threes full of Fives) BigBob868 collected 7705 from main pot
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#14
10-20-2004, 11:55 AM
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Repost of the original Hand, there were some errors
There were some errors in the original hand when it was converted. I have no clue why that happened. Here is the raw transcript:
PokerStars Game #785196915: Tournament #3071049, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2004/10/20 - 08:51:25 (ET) Table '3071049 2' Seat #4 is the button Seat 2: mirri (2125 in chips) Seat 3: you-cant-win (1458 in chips) Seat 4: theguzzler (1710 in chips) Seat 5: SixgunSam (2950 in chips) Seat 6: bigeddie26 (1490 in chips) Seat 7: BigBob868 (2535 in chips) Seat 8: stikinitinu (1600 in chips) Seat 9: crazyman22 (4140 in chips) SixgunSam: posts small blind 50 bigeddie26: posts big blind 100 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to SixgunSam [Kd Qd] BigBob868: calls 100 stikinitinu: folds crazyman22: raises 100 to 200 mirri: folds you-cant-win: folds theguzzler: folds SixgunSam: calls 150 bigeddie26: folds BigBob868: calls 100 *** FLOP *** [3d Ts Jd] SixgunSam: bets 500 BigBob868: calls 500 crazyman22: raises 3440 to 3940 and is all-in SixgunSam: calls 2250 and is all-in BigBob868: calls 1835 and is all-in *** TURN *** [3d Ts Jd] [5d] *** RIVER *** [3d Ts Jd 5d] [5c] *** SHOW DOWN *** SixgunSam: shows [Kd Qd] (a flush, King high) crazyman22: shows [Js Ac] (two pair, Jacks and Fives) SixgunSam collected 830 from side pot BigBob868: shows [3h 3c] (a full house, Threes full of Fives) BigBob868 collected 7705 from main pot
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#15
10-20-2004, 12:05 PM
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Re: Interesting tournament hand
UTG (AJ) was terrible from the start. The limp and call preflop, was terrible. If He had open raised, 33 may have folded preflop. On the flop, He hit TPTK, so he thinks he is best, if he is going to play though, he should have raised the SB (not that anyone was going anywhere). If he gives credit to SB, why call, and then call the raise from MP.
I have no problem with a preflop raise from MP with 33. It is better than a limp, where he may have to call a raise. It actually bought him the button (a bigger raise could have bought him the pot). It could have also bought him checks on the flop, so he could've seen a cheap turn if everyone missed (though he may have fired another bullet...) The 333 is likely ahead, but bottom set is weak especially with the flush draw. He can't release. He can call (weak) or make them pay to draw. The SB bet out on the flop trying to buy the pot/take control. Everyone stayed in (oops), but with more outs than I can count on my fingers can't blame you for trying... It certainly gets whooolly when everybody gets a piece.
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#16
10-20-2004, 12:20 PM
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Re: Interesting tournament hand
I don't like the raise at all, especially a mini-raise. I've noticed a lot of players making mini-raises and mini-bets when they have a draw on the flop or baby pairs pre-flop. If I figure out that is what they are doing, I will bet them out of the pot knowing they are weak. I think it's a mistake to play weak PP like 33 early in the first place.
There was an error in the conversion of the original hand. The 33 actually limped and then called the mini-raise. Read the reposted raw transcript of the hand.
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#18
10-20-2004, 12:56 PM
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Re: Interesting tournament hand
Unlike another poster, I think your pf call with KQs is fine. It's your postflop play I don't like.
I've been thinking a lot about what Paul Phillips said recently. It's not verbaitim, but he says that on flops like this, the goal is the manipulate the betting so that you get all your money into the pot first. This is a GREAT flop for your hand...but you don't actually have anything but king high right now. If you bet into this, you're always going to be committed to sticking the rest of your chips in on a draw when someone raises you. But if you check two things can happen. First, you can raise all-in and have folding equity on the other hands. It would be unfortunate that the person you're most likely to be check raising is the one who has you covered and the one you're most likely to be pushing out of the pot you have covered...but life's not always going to give you perfect situations. The other possibility is that it gets checked through. What do you give up then? You have king high! You're not giving others a free card, they just gave you one.
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#20
10-20-2004, 01:10 PM
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Re: Interesting tournament hand
[ QUOTE ]
I swear, I think that the hand convertor screwed this hand up because here is the original transcript: PokerStars Game #785196915: Tournament #3071049, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2004/10/20 - 08:51:25 (ET) Table '3071049 2' Seat #4 is the button Seat 2: mirri (2125 in chips) Seat 3: you-cant-win (1458 in chips) Seat 4: theguzzler (1710 in chips) Seat 5: SixgunSam (2950 in chips) Seat 6: bigeddie26 (1490 in chips) Seat 7: BigBob868 (2535 in chips) Seat 8: stikinitinu (1600 in chips) Seat 9: crazyman22 (4140 in chips) SixgunSam: posts small blind 50 bigeddie26: posts big blind 100 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to SixgunSam [Kd Qd] BigBob868: calls 100 stikinitinu: folds crazyman22: raises 100 to 200 mirri: folds you-cant-win: folds theguzzler: folds SixgunSam: calls 150 bigeddie26: folds BigBob868: calls 100 *** FLOP *** [3d Ts Jd] SixgunSam: bets 500 BigBob868: calls 500 crazyman22: raises 3440 to 3940 and is all-in SixgunSam: calls 2250 and is all-in BigBob868: calls 1835 and is all-in *** TURN *** [3d Ts Jd] [5d] *** RIVER *** [3d Ts Jd 5d] [5c] *** SHOW DOWN *** SixgunSam: shows [Kd Qd] (a flush, King high) crazyman22: shows [Js Ac] (two pair, Jacks and Fives) SixgunSam collected 830 from side pot BigBob868: shows [3h 3c] (a full house, Threes full of Fives) BigBob868 collected 7705 from main pot [/ QUOTE ] Sixgun- Dont defend your action vs the man with AJ. You are a huge favorite to his hand, and your hand has tons of pot equity in the 3 way all in. (Whereas he has very very little) Also, I think I would've gone a different line. Typically min raisers dont neccessarily imply they will lead out again, but here is where I would often go for a C/R; reason being is your bet of 500 means you're not going to fold to "BigBob" or anyone, else, (I would surely back my tourney life here, great place to pick up chips) but you *do* want to give yourself folding equity in case you dont hit your over/flush/straight. Plus if "Bigbob" bets and UTG calls, you can then move in (which depending on original raiser's bet, would either be slightly more equal or less than pot sized) and get a great price plus a but of folding equity. The only qualm about leading out with a bet is that if one or both just smoot call, and you dont hit one of your numerous outs, You are full invested in the pot, but now drawing with just one card to come. Do you push? Check call small bets? I dont know, it becomes harder to play if you blank the turn.
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