KJo from the BB - hit top two on the turn

[Che]

FTP $1/$2 NL

All relevant stacks have $200-$220 to start the hand.

MP limps, button limps, SB completes, I check the BB with KJo.

Reads:

MP is above average for this game. Very few unreasonable plays.

Button is very loose preflop. Somewhat loose postflop. Will autobet the pot if last to bet and checked to on the flop. Also above average for the game.

SB is relatively unknown, but I suspect that he may be one of the best players I have run into at this level. I normally notate bad plays and ruts that players have fallen into, but I have no notes on this player. Unfortunately, I haven't played with him enough to confirm that he is actually good rather than someone who just appeared to play well the one time we played together.

All reads from prior play as I have been at the table for only one orbit.

(Pot: $7.60) Flop: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB checks, I check, MP checks, button bets $8.

SB calls, I make it $30, MP and button fold, SB calls.

(Pot: $73) Turn: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB checks, I bet $35, SB raises to $75, I call the extra $40.

(Pot: $223) River: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB pushes in his last $93.50. I call the $93.50.

Comments on any street appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Che

[Che]

Man, this went to page 4 quickly. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Any comments before it disappears for good?

[bogey]

I just call the flop bet and see what develops. Actually I think it is much better to bet the flop. Since you checked you can checkraise just the button but I wouldnt after the SB called. You want a cheaper showdown here and with no real draws on the board you dont need to protect your hand so much. After the J hits, with no flush or straight I think its fine to go to the felt the way the hand played out. SB will have something other than 22 or 33 enough to make it profitable.

[ScottTheFish]

SB played it like a flopped set. Completes SB with 22 or 33, rainbow flop, checks, calls a bet, calls a raise.

Let's assume he's a decent player, What is he calling with? No real draws on the board unless he has 45.

Now he check raises you on the turn, but not enough to blow you off the hand, and pushes on the river.

If he flopped a set, I think he played it nicely and was lucky enough for you to hit top 2 on the turn.

By the river I guess you have to call 93 into a pot of 300+, but if you were willing to call all in on the river why not push on the turn? He obviously likes his hand and is unlikely to fold.

[Wayfare]

Your hand is almost certainly not good. He is milking you with a set. The preflop action rules out a good king, and do you REALLY think he would go two streets of raising and finish with a push with lesser two pair?

I would say there is a 75% chance a rational player has a set here.

One thing we all have to learn is that you can hit your two pair and still muck it to a raise when the stacks are deep.

[bogey]

[ QUOTE ]

By the river I guess you have to call 93 into a pot of 300+, but if you were willing to call all in on the river why not push on the turn? He obviously likes his hand and is unlikely to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he doesn't have it at least he may bluff it at the river. All-in on the turn doesn't do much good since a free card is unlikely to hurt you and you have position.

[bogey]

[ QUOTE ]
Your hand is almost certainly not good. He is milking you with a set. The preflop action rules out a good king,


[/ QUOTE ]

Why? A lot of times I just complete from the SB with AK and always with KQ.

[ QUOTE ]

and do you REALLY think he would go two streets of raising and finish with a push with lesser two pair?


[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, why not?

[slaman]

I would have played it the same way you did - it seems that he's made two-pair, a lesser two pair than yours, but the way he's played it, I don't think he's made a set. I think he has a pair of kings with a high kicker, or possibly a K-8 two-pair.

What did he end up showing?

[Wayfare]

"SB is relatively unknown, but I suspect that he may be one of the best players I have run into at this level."

Let's start there.

Ok, here is the action on the flop:

SB checks, I check, MP checks, button bets $8.
SB calls, I make it $30, MP and button fold, SB calls.

Ok, you have a check/call then a cold call call of a check raise from SB. Let's ask ourselves:

Is this AK? Almost certainly not. Is it K8? No. Is it flopped two pair?

When you get this type of action with a one pair hand you STOP PUTTING MONEY INTO THE POT.

There, I put it in caps so there is no confusion. The rest of the hand just confirms my read. You have to either not be paying much attention or be playing with some really loose postflop opponents to get all in here, especially when it's unraised preflop.

To reiterate: this seems super obvious to me. SB isn't going third level on us, he is monstrous.

[Wayfare]

"After the J hits, with no flush or straight I think its fine to go to the felt the way the hand played out."

No, the lack of draws makes it much worse to go to the felt. Much much much worse.