Flop 2 pair becomes check republic

private joker · #1 10-20-2004, 09:36 AM

Live 4/8, 9 handed, one-blind structure

No specific player reads, but table is fairly passive, with many preflops going unraised

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, button folds, BB raises , UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players, 10 sb)
 BB bets , UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises , CO folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls

Turn: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (8 BB)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, BB raises , UTG+1 folds, Hero calls

River: T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12 BB)
BB checks, Hero checks

Comments appreciated.

1) What does the turn CR mean -- am I behind, or do you 3-bet?
2) Do you bet the river or be glad you get a free showdown?
3) Can the Red Sox actually win 4 straight to take the ALCS?

hotcookie42 · #2 10-20-2004, 10:05 AM

PF raise by BB followed by his lead-out bet on the flop led me to believe that he holds AK, AQ, AJ of some kind. I think you're winning on the flop - most thinking players do not raise PF with A9, so I doubt you're behind in that sense. I'd be wary of an AcXc when I see that CR on the turn - he might be hoping to jam the pot on a flush draw. And I would probably check the river down. He's check-raised you once in the hand and might do it again if he's drawn out to the nuts (since your strength earlier shows him you've probably made a decent hand and he figured you'll bet this if he checks).

This is all assuming he is a thinking player, which most in 2/4 aren't.

Go Red Sox! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

private joker · #3 10-20-2004, 10:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]

This is all assuming he is a thinking player, which most in 2/4 aren't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it's 4/8, but still. I did put him on a big ace on the flop, but the turn CR weirded me out. I didn't think he'd jam the pot with a flush draw now that the pot is short-handed and he can get a cheaper (1 BB) river card and CR me there if he hits the flush.

private joker · #4 10-20-2004, 04:05 PM

(shameless bump)

bisonbison · #5 10-20-2004, 04:07 PM

Think it through: what are his raising standards from the blinds? What are the odds he has better than one pair here?

I think he'll be overplaying AK here often enough to 3-bet the turn. I think the 3-bet is actually pretty easy.

Also, when you post a hand with a hard turn decision, it's usually best to just stop at your action on the turn.

hotcookie42 · #6 10-21-2004, 01:01 AM

Sorry for typo. Substitute, "this is small stakes" for "2/4" and we should have it right.

Evan · #7 10-21-2004, 01:36 AM

3 bet the turn, he doesn't have aces every time.

Where are all these games you play in with only 1 blind? I've never heard of that.

private joker · #8 10-21-2004, 01:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
3 bet the turn, he doesn't have aces every time.

Where are all these games you play in with only 1 blind? I've never heard of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I live in Los Angeles, and the casinos in Gardena are like that. These hands I post are all from live action at the Hustler, but the Normandie casino also has the one-blind structure. It's weird, but great for a player who knows what they're doing.

I didn't 3-bet the turn because
a) his preflop raise + leading out on the flop with an A in it screamed "i have TPGK"
b) my raise indicated "so what, I can beat that"
c) his check raise on the turn says "i just trapped you for 2 BB, so this is a monster"

I didn't want to put him on a set of 9s or 8s, but it's conceivable. I didn't think he'd raise with A5 PF, but his turn reaction indicated that the 5 helped him.

Nevertheless, if he really screws up flush draws (he could have had AKs, AQs [of clubs], etc.) then I had to check behind on the river for fear of another check raise.

Evan · #9 10-21-2004, 01:59 AM

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Nevertheless, if he really screws up flush draws (he could have had AKs, AQs [of clubs], etc.) then I had to check behind on the river for fear of another check raise.

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Given the action that took place I'm gonna go out on a limp here (sarcasm) and say that a river check-raise will NEVER occur here.

PF raise, lead the flop, c/r the turn....no way he tries to c/r the river when a scare card hits.

private joker · #10 10-21-2004, 02:04 AM

Yeah, that makes sense. I was just so weirded out by that turn CR that I assumed I was behind often enough that a river bet could be unprofitable -- I could be betting for him (as in, he has me beat on the turn but is scared of the third flush card so he check-calls). I was glad to get a free showdown.

Results were, he showed AK and MHIG. Sure was an odd way to play AK, though -- smooth-calling a flop raise and then check-raising the turn. He did buy himself a free showdown, though, so maybe it ain't so odd.

Evan -- I'm now curious to hear your thoughts on another hand I posted today -- scroll down a few posts to the "Pocket nines with dirty outs" thread. It's my most interesting hand in a while and I'd like to get some wise advice on it.