Have I gone completely mad? KJs hand - Page 2

Bob S. · #11 10-11-2004, 03:44 AM

Ian-

Why do I feel like if Mike L. had posted this hand everyone would be talking about how genious the play is??? As one poster already stated, the flop decision is very close...with calling probably being the least favorable. I'd have given stronger consideration to betting on the river with one player all in...you probably pick up an extra bet or two which would always be nice if you are beaten by the all-in player.

-Bob S.

Charlie · #12 10-11-2004, 07:46 AM

I like a limp preflop, and you have to call the raise since there is so much money already in the pot. On the flop it is either a raise or fold hoping to eliminate hands like KQ or AJ. Then you hit the best card on the turn which gives you a minimum of 9 outs to win the pot. Since the pot is so large you have to bet the turn maybe getting a chance to maybe steal a pot on the river if someone misses. I like the non bet on the river knowing you will get called by a better hand more than often. Maybe AK or AA. Perhaps even get raised on the river.

DeeJ · #13 10-11-2004, 08:04 AM

Nice pot. Nice game!

As it turned out, your jack, your king and any club were good by the river. I have to say I wouldn't raise the flop, but I would reraise the turn (can you? with that all-in?) as I have plenty of club outs which look very good.

I can't understand people check-calling the turn. It's a fantastic card which gives you 9 outs to the probable 2nd nuts.

Your overcards might also be good. Which they were [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Saborion · #14 10-11-2004, 09:50 AM

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I wouldnt have called the raises pre-flop with that,

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Are you being sarcastic or honest?

What I'm curious about is, is a preflop raise by hero out of the question?

Saborion · #15 10-11-2004, 09:55 AM

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The action comes to me and I think it's close between a check and a bet.

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Wouldn't a lot of worse hands call due to the pot size? Especially the way that table appeared to be playing?

Also, as I asked in another post in this thread. What about a raise preflop? Too early position?

Saborion · #16 10-11-2004, 09:56 AM

That makes two of us then. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Saborion · #17 10-11-2004, 10:09 AM

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I can't understand people check-calling the turn. It's a fantastic card which gives you 9 outs to the probable 2nd nuts.

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If hero is behind, which I assume he is (I'm weak-tight, we all know that), and since we can assume that anyone with xJ or xK, where x = any of the board cards, won't fold for a bet on the turn given the pot size, a bet by hero is only good if hero will get enough callers for his given amount of outs.

With 7 outs hero need to get 6 callers to make the bet profitable. No good since there only are 5 opponents.
9 outs and hero need to get 5 callers, which may happen. I'd consider it very borderline though.
12 outs and hero only need to get 3 callers to make it profitable. Although will he have 12 outs often enough?

Now, hero only has 9 outs, there's a chance of him getting check-raised, which kind of would suck.

A bet on the turn is no good imo. Am I totally off track here?

1800GAMBLER · #18 10-11-2004, 10:23 AM

Raise preflop. call the flop. take the free card on the turn. bet the river.

Trix · #19 10-11-2004, 10:26 AM

Hi, I dont play this limit, but I would have raised preflop. If I get the button, then it rocks, if I dont, then I get to play a 5way+ pot for two bets with KJs which I like too.

I like the flop raise, since it may gain you two outs in a big pot.

I would check the turn though, as you need four callers to make it for value and the pot is too big to improve your chance of winning it with a bet at this point.

I think you have to bet the river aswell, MP2 is checking through AJ,AQ and other hands that still are missed but will bet with the ones with a King for sure. He will probably just call if you bet into him though, as there are 3 people behind and he dont want to get 3bet with a onepair hand. I dont think check-folding for one is an option.

1800GAMBLER · #20 10-11-2004, 10:28 AM

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I can't understand people check-calling the turn. It's a fantastic card which gives you 9 outs to the probable 2nd nuts.

Your overcards might also be good

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 6 players and one nearly all in. So you have no bluffing equity you probably aren't going to get overlay on your bet and if you do it's very small. There's a small-medium sized risk of with all the coldcallers one of 'em is going to pop you on the turn.