Should I fold JJ in SB?

LotharOfTheHillPeople · #1 10-10-2004, 02:35 AM

Hollywood Park Casino Los Angeles CA. 40/80 or 20/40 (can't remember which). WILD player (player A) raises UTG. Two to his left, loose/aggressive/tilting player B 3 bets. Two to his left (assume everyone in between folding), fairly tight player C cold 4 bets. Player C is a bit short stacked due to beats and getting blinded away. The action is on me in the SB and I find JJ. However, before I act, the BB says "I'll cap it". Not sure whether he knew it was already capped or not. Nevertheless, I knew he was in and that wasn't good news since my read on him to this point was that he was a fairly solid player. It pained me to lay down those jacks, but I felt it was the right play. I figured I had to be up against a better pair or at worst an AK holding. The board came 7 high and player B won with 88s. I didn't regret laying down the jacks at the time, but since then it's been on my mind whether that's the right play. I haven't gotten a lot of affirmation from other people I've asked that this was the right play. Any thoughts?

CDs_Nts · #2 10-10-2004, 02:43 AM

Weak play. Never lay down JJ preflop in a limit game unless you KNOW (and I mean KNOW) one of the other guys has QQ, KK or AA. I mean god, it's the fourth best possible hand. The fact that you feel good about laying it down AFTER seeing 88 take down the pot means you need to play your big hands a little stronger, even if you're out of position. Position means nothing if you have the best hand, and preflop, you only need to be afraid of 3 other hands.

mmcd · #3 10-10-2004, 02:58 AM

If C was close to all-in or possibly tilting, I think you should call. If he's playing sort of weak-tight (which I think was probably the case from your description) then a fold is in order.

Given the situation, I think your laydown was correct. You are beat the vast majority of the time here, and if rags flop, you get put in the situation of having to pay-off unless there is heavy action from the others.

Huh · #4 10-10-2004, 03:34 AM

In A ten handed game there is close to a 12% chance that someonme at the table will have AA, KK, QQ, each hand. Once you have several seemingly tight players putting in this much money, that chance increases dramatically.

Not too mention that against AK, and AQ you are a virtual coin flip, unless these players have eachothers out. I'm not saying I agree with the lay down, I think it is extremely game/playeer dependant...I am just saying I think it is much much closer than you think.

elysium · #5 10-10-2004, 03:53 AM

hi lot

you're good to call or reraise. you've got to love this one.

JasonP530 · #6 10-10-2004, 01:26 PM

Yikes. If the 4 other players call, youll be getting 21-4 on your call preflop. I dont know if youre hoping that someone has a big pair, so they can pay you when you flop a set, or hoping you have the best hand that holds up. A lot of flops are going to kill you as well. Nothing wrong with laying down the 4th or so best hand preflop if youre not quite getting the odds, and are very likely behind. According to the players are you?

Nottom · #7 10-10-2004, 01:37 PM

It's close. You are likely in no set, no bet mode. So it all comes down to how much you think you will make when you hit. You have good position relative to the BB who is indicating strength with his out of turn re-cap, so that might push this into a call. Without him its leaning strongly into fold territory.