|
|
#401
10-09-2004, 09:00 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Folding the Nuts
First of all, I said you KNOW this opponent and you KNOW he has AK. He isn't pushing with just a flush draw.
This was a fictitious scenerio designed to illustrate a point. That point is that sometimes in holdem when there are more cards to come, the immediate nuts isn't is strong as most people think, and VERY OCCASIONALLY, probably always in NL with deep stacks, it could conceivably be correct to fold it. If people are routinely semibluffing me by bets that are in excess of 100 times the size of the pot, I really don't think I'd mind. 
|
|
#402
10-09-2004, 09:04 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Interesting No Limit Question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The best hand is Jd-Xd. The 2nd best hand is J-x not diamonds. If you have the Jd, you can be sure that nobody has the best hand, therefore your 2nd best hand is indeed the best. If you have the Jd, even if you don't have the best hand, you can bluff and act as if you do have the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] I understand all that. You didn't actually answer anything I asked [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] You asked(and I quote): " Why does it make a difference whether we have the Jc or Js?" I think I answered that. [/ QUOTE ] But your answer didn't say anything about the Jc or Js! It was only about the Jd. I understand the importance of the Jd. Above, some people were making a big deal out of the fact that you have EXACTLY AsJs. I don't get the importance of this. All non-diamond hands seem to be created equal to me.
|
|
#403
10-09-2004, 09:07 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Interesting No Limit Question
correct. if you had A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] it would be the same problem.
this should be obvious enough not to discuss.
|
|
#404
10-09-2004, 09:09 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Interesting No Limit Question
Exactly the AJ [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] was just a response to people that misread the post and said:
1) How do we know YOU don't have the J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or 2) If Mr. Straight has a Jack, the odds are 1 in 4 it's a diamond. Yes, if you don't have the J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] the suit of your Jack is irrelevant.
|
|
#407
10-09-2004, 09:27 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Call is Correct. Expection = +$400
You havent' included a couple of scenarions that while ulikely are entirely possible.
1)J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is held by the flush draw behind you, and he raises a large ammount that is not all-in. What bet size do you call, and when do you fold? 2) A flush draw also could contain 2 pair, and the river pairs the board. You seem to assume that if you call and the river either makes a flush or pairs the board, you will have no decisions on the river. This isn't the case.
|
|
#408
10-09-2004, 09:32 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Interesting No Limit Question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The best hand is Jd-Xd. The 2nd best hand is J-x not diamonds. If you have the Jd, you can be sure that nobody has the best hand, therefore your 2nd best hand is indeed the best. If you have the Jd, even if you don't have the best hand, you can bluff and act as if you do have the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] I understand all that. You didn't actually answer anything I asked [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] You asked(and I quote): " Why does it make a difference whether we have the Jc or Js?" I think I answered that. [/ QUOTE ] But your answer didn't say anything about the Jc or Js! It was only about the Jd. I understand the importance of the Jd. Above, some people were making a big deal out of the fact that you have EXACTLY AsJs. I don't get the importance of this. All non-diamond hands seem to be created equal to me. [/ QUOTE ] Oh ok. No, you're right, but I think you just misunderstood. DS stated in the original question that you had As-Js. The important concept is that you had non-diamonds. It could've been clubs, hearts, or spades. You're right, theres no significance in the spades except that they are non-diamonds.
|
|
#409
10-09-2004, 09:33 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Let me clarify something.
Thanks for the well thought out response.
I wasn't questioning how often he had the J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], I was questioning why he would only reraise with the bare J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 1/3 of the time and call 2/3 of the time with the bare J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
|
|
#410
10-09-2004, 09:34 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Let me clarify something.
[ QUOTE ]
in other news, 2+2=4 [/ QUOTE ] lol. I thought the same exact thing. I think that a lot of people don't feel like reading through this entire thread carefully like I was able to do due to me having no life [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] , so they miss some stuff thats already been said.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
