Multiway capped PF, Raise flop/Raise turn ?

[kelvin474]

Party 3/6

hero is the button. Table is full of loose-passives. UTG+1 and CO have showed down lots of suited trash. Many of these players have been doing plays like calling the turn with one overcard.

UTG Folds. UTG+1 Raises, UTG+2 calls, EMP folds, MP calls, LMP calls, CO folds.

Hero has A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and re-raises. SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 caps, MP calls, LMP calls, Hero calls.

FLOP 6 good players(23 SB): 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BB checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

I can't present anyone but BB with two bets cold if I want to knock out some crappy Q3s or A3s, both of which could have been played PF for a cap in this game. Thats why I didn't raise. I'm not sure if raising a CO bet makes sense either since I could only cut odds to 10:1 which doesn't really make it right for anything other than a hand like 22 to fold. Do you like the flop call.

I think the pot is so big that folding is silly. I actually have effective odds to draw at just the backdoor flush, if we don't think BB is going to checkraise after me. The PF capper's hand is either a pocketpair (even a small one) or a 2-card royal. (hey, I know those cards!). I don't think he would cap without suited or a pair, but his standards for those hands aren't high.

Turn 6 good players(14.5 BB): J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Alright, not a total brick for Hero. BB checks. UTG+1 checks. UTG+2 checks. MP checks. LMP bets. Hero raises. BB folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 goes all-in for $4, MP folds, LMP calls.

The 2-bets cold to these guys offered about 9:1 pot odds. I think a gutshot would still expect that they might make it up in implied odds on the river so the raise may not make it right to fold the gutshots. I really don't expect to. I played this so far the way i would play a pair of faces in this situation but I don't get the idea anyone is paying attention to that, FWIW.

I'm wondering about the flop non-raise and turn yes-raise. Depending on how many people want to play on the turn, this might end up as a value raise, in fact I thought it reasonably likely. Just calling would have gotten a lot of calls more probably but I wouldn't feel so great about a river Q or A. The LMP had thus far colcalled twice, then bet when it ws checked to him. I think a crappy pair, maybe with a gutshot soudns like how this clown would play. Although it's not smart, I think he might have played the flopped straight or set like that too since people like to be sneaky and have FPS. And yes, he might coldcall with 46s. I'm not taking the straight seriously but it's one of the hands he might play that line with.

If LMP was thinking about my hand, he would likely think I hit a Jack and figure on facing AJ or KJ (i have to remember that he doesn't see me the way i would see myself if i were watching myself play.). If a Jack falls on the river and he checks, I'm betting again to see if I can make him fold a hand like 34s, 45s, 56s.

I flushed the river with the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and amazingly didn't get paid off by LMP, who checkfolded (the gutshot? crappy pair assuming he's behind and shooting for 2-pair?) The all-in player had 99 for the rivered set which wasn't good enough. pretty nice pot, but did I just walk into luck, or did I help create my own luck by maybe cleaning up an A or Q out on the turn?

I guess we can talk about my PF 3-bet too if you like. I thought it likely AQs was best.

[Rudbaeck]

Raising the flop does nothing for you, raising the turn should clean up your outs though. I like.

[MoDOH]

Preflop I like
Flop good

Would just have called on the Turn. You are still on a draw with probably at least 12 good outs and you rasing the Turn will only make those with wose hands than yours to fold. If your description of the players are correct that they will play Q3s to a cap preflop, how could you then assume that they would fold, and incorrectly so, on the Turn facing two cold when they got a piece of the board?

[Rudbaeck]

Hero only has 9 good outs on the turn. The A and Q outs have to be discounted. So lets make that another 2 outs total.

Hero has 34:11, so if more than 3 people call it's a value raise. If fewer than that call it's not too bad. Gotta remember that we are still at a level where many opponents don't count their pot odds, and quite a few of them also fear the double bet size of the turn. Presenting someone who is weak post-flop with 2 cold here might make opponents fold a hand he should call with.