10/20 hand I botched (I think); what would you do?

[garyc8]

Pre-flop:
I limp UTG with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG+1 raises. 5 cold calls. BB calls. I call. 8 of us take flop.
Flop:
K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. BB checks, I check, UTG+1 bets, call, MP raise,1 fold, 2 LP cold calls, BB calls, I 3 bet. UTG +1 folds, all remaining players call.
Turn:
J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
The pre-flop raiser (now out of the hand) mutters, "no waiting". I take advantage of the table-talk and say just loud enuff to be heard, "If they've got it, they;ve got it." And bet. A couple of folds and the a raise from LP. I notice that BB(a LAG) was already leaning over the table with enuff chips in his hand to raise. He is clearly surprised by LP raise, and now announces a call.
The Question:
Three of us will take the river. Should I 3 bet now and step out on the river? Or call now and play to check raise the river? I think I chose incorrectly. Will post results later.

(Sorry if my narrative is hard to follow. This is my first post here> [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img])

[jfresh]

I usually 3 bet on the turn; neither of the players are going to fold to the 3rd bet, and you're likely to get more if you raise here than on the river. Anyway, a lot can change on the river; if another club falls, no one is going to bet (most likely I think, as AKJc are all out there). If, say, another K falls, you decide to checkraise, you are open to the 3bet from some with KJ.

[TStoneMBD]

yah 3bet the turn. noone is going to fold here and you gain the same bets that you would if you raised the river... sept that the button may not even bet, someone may be drawing to a full, another club kills your action as well as a board pairing card if youre up against a smaller flush.

[Victor]

For clarity list how much money (in sb or bb) and how many players are in the hand on each street.

I like the flop checkraise 3 bet with the nut draw and a mess of callers especially in these loose games where people rarely go anywhere on the flop if they put money in already.

The turn is an easy 3 bet. You are getting called by the raiser and caller without a doubt. You might get 4 bet if the raiser has a flush although it is because doubtful people fear the nuts. The cold caller either has a small flush or 2pair or set and either way he is gonna see the river.

Dont worry about table talk at these games. As clever as you may think you are these people are calling down anyway. Your opps might have a little as top pair and call you down in these situations.


[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 raises. 5 cold calls

[/ QUOTE ]

gotta love cleveland

[tolbiny]

Gotta love that phrase- especially when it's said on the river.

As for the hand three bet the turn- three betting the turn and then betting out on the river will net you the same amount as calling and c/r the river- with no risk of it getting checked through. These guys don't fold- if they do you need to call 216 676 4500 and find a proper poker game [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].
If the guy in Lp was the lag i might even three bet the turn and then c/r the river- but since the BB is the lag just three bet- remember a lot of Lags will often cap just for the heck of capping always give them this chance (especially with the nuts).
lp also might have a hand he wants to cap, you don't want to miss out on opportunities like this.
Anyway- should be some great games at the Armory this weekend, I hope i can make it out there for a couple of hours after putting in my new "wine cellar" on saturday.

[garyc8]

You guys pretty well nailed it. Here's what happened:

I figured I'd probably get the same # of bets either way, so I decided to play it "safe" in case BB was on a set (I should have considered that he probably would have made a move on the flop if he hit a set), or KJ. I just called.

The River: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
No chance for CR now. I cost myself $40. LP had Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. BB had 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I bet, and they both made the crying call.

BTW- this hand took place at the armory a couple of Sundays ago.