All-in With Multiple Callers

[emp1346]

Sweet. Nice to read something on the subject from a guy who definately plays a lot more (and a lot better) poker than I do.

I think in the original situation above I made the correct play at least, despite the other caller.

Thanks for the links.

I didn't know there was that much strategy for "dry side pots."

[emp1346]

submariner...

well, i'm not sure if this asking another player in the side pot if he wants to check it down is cheating...

now if he says that both players should check it down just so there's a greater chance of eliminating the all-in, then perhaps that would be cheating...

see the difference? i think it's a fine line...

either way i hate agreeing to check it down in any situation... it pisses people off, but too bad, right?

[Saint_D]

I think he makes a mistake in Article 2.

[ QUOTE ]

You have 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the flop is

J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Daniel says:

...check, and wait until you make a hand before betting. This one is debatable because there is actually something to win on the side, but it’s also a dangerous flop for you. Also, at this point you have a 6 high, which doesn’t figure to win without some improvement. In this hand, you’d be better off shutting down, hoping to get a free draw.


[/ QUOTE ]

You have 9 outs to the flush and another 3 outs to the gutshot strait. That gives you odds of 1.2:1 to make your hand by the river.

I think he is right about this being a dangerous flop. However, its dangerous to let anyone else draw on this hand. Anyone with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is pretty dangerous here, as is anyone with KQ. Right now you have way more outs than any of these people. KQ has 5.1:1 to get that 8. KQ has another 3 outs for the K and might be counting that as an out. Lets say one of those cards is a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Giving one more out to that player. That's 9 total to your 12. (but remember that you lose 3 of them if they stay in the hand). 9 outs is 1.9:1 with 2 cards to come.

The real danger here is K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. They have all your outs, rob you of 2 you were counting plus 2 more kings and 2 more queens.

I think a pot sized bet (if your stack can take it) is correct here. You want to protect this drawing hand. If someone comes over the top, they likely have K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or are making a mistake.

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] has 8 outs and might also fold to a stiff raise. K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] will probably fold most of the time having 5 outs. (four 8's and the runner runner).


-Saint_D

[BNFwGef]

[ QUOTE ]
The only place I could see it is at the final table with 3 players left and you are the massive chip leader, so that the extra chips the other large stack wins won't threaten you much.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is, IMO, one of the worst situations to check down an all-in and not open a dry side pot. If you are the massive chip leader with three players left, it is to your advantage to have both opponents remain. Both of your opponents are fighting it out for second place, which will usually pay significantly more than third. Given that neither wants to be the next eliminated, it is a prime opportunity to steal, steal, steal.
If your opponent will fold to a bet, you will either win the pot and get heads up or lose and return to a situation where you can make up for lost chips rather easily. If your opponent wins the pot and gets heads up, you've unnecessarily given him a better chance to beat you in the end. There are some good situations to check it down (when you're in the middle of the pack and are looking to move up a spot in the money), but this is not one of them.

In response to the other issue at hand, it is certainly not kosher to ask another player to check down a hand with you to try to eliminate the all-in. I'd like to think that a player would be DQed for collusion if they tried this, but Im not sure what the various internet sites policy is on this form of collusion.

[sfer]

.

[Emperor]

I think Daniel is on Megalomaniacal Tilt concerning this hand.

He doesn't say how big a stack that the bluffer had, but here is how I would play it.

1. I have less chips than the person/people that I think will fold to my bluff.... Then I do EXACTLY as this bluffer did... I surely would rather keep the small stack in than to help put a signifant amount of chips in somebody's stack (DANIEL'S!) who might bully me with those chips down the road.... Not only that it puts the would be winner on Megalomaniacal Tilt as seen here. I have done this MANY times online... The would be winner always goes insane for the rest of the tourney. which is GREAT because he usually has the bigger stack.


2. I have more chips... Then I would agree with Daniel that checking it down makes sense, because whoever wins the hand it isn't going to change table makeup that much...AND it safely eliminates a player.

Oh and as far as Daniel turning into Phil after this hand... He surely did... Now he is spreading bad advice around via his writing, just like Phil [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[tek]

Daniel's Hold em quiz questions dealt with limit, not no limit...