Final Table: What's the play?

[sloth469]

8 players left big money top 3. Hand from the other night $10 rebuy tourney. Playing to win (which may be my first mistake).

Game #603255828 - Tournament Palmtree R&A - 20,000/40,000 No Limit Texas Hold'em
- 2004/09/30-02:05:35 (CST)
Table "Palmtree R&A 25" (MTT) -- Seat 2 is the button
Seat 1: lottocash (9,954 in chips)
Seat 2: akademic (351,328 in chips)
Seat 4: BVT_13 (660,860 in chips)
Seat 5: sloth469 (194,400 in chips)
Seat 7: Hemmi (551,298 in chips)
Seat 8: Pointgiven (117,461 in chips)
Seat 9: EddieJ (232,712 in chips)
Seat 10: blitz321 (235,487 in chips)
akademic: Ante (2,000)
BVT_13 : Ante (2,000)
sloth469: Ante (2,000)
Hemmi : Ante (2,000)
Pointgiven: Ante (2,000)
EddieJ : Ante (2,000)
blitz321: Ante (2,000)
lottocash: Ante (2,000)
BVT_13 : Post Small Blind (20,000)
sloth469: Post Big Blind (40,000)
Dealing...
Dealt to sloth469 [ 2c ]
Dealt to sloth469 [ Qc ]
Hemmi : Fold
Pointgiven: Fold
EddieJ : Fold
blitz321: Call (40,000)
lottocash: Fold
akademic: Call (40,000)
BVT_13 : Fold
sloth469: Check
*** FLOP *** : [ 4h Qd Qh ]
sloth469: Check
blitz321: Bet (193,487)
akademic: Call (193,487)

So, what is my play? I'm pretty sure I'm ahead but there is a heart flush draw, and also a chance someone has a better Q. If I fold I still have 4 bbs, and if i'm playing to move up I could fold here and let these to battle it out. The more I think about this the more I think throwing it away is the best play. What do you all think?

-sloth

Results to follow.

[jimotto]

Easy fold.

[DougBrennan]

No choice but a painful fold. Knowing nothing of the table or players it's still a pretty easy read of a flush-draw and a higher Queen.

One exception--if you are really in a "win-or-nothing" mood, go for it. It's conceivable (but not likely) that you're up against two drawing hands or overplayed pocket pairs and tripling up would put you in very good shape.

But I think you're beat.

Doug

[sloth469]

sloth469: Call All-in (152,400)
*** TURN *** : [ 4h Qd Qh ] [ Tc ]
BVT_13 said, "opps"
*** RIVER *** : [ 4h Qd Qh Tc ] [ 8h ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 613,200 | Side pot 1: 82,174 | Board: [ 4h Qd Qh Tc 8h ]
lottocash lost 2,000 (folded)
akademic bet 235,487, collected 695,374, net +459,887 (showed hand) [ Ah Th ]
(a flush, ace high)
BVT_13 lost 22,000 (folded)
sloth469 lost 194,400 (showed hand) [ 2c Qc ] (three of a kind, queens)
Hemmi lost 2,000 (folded)
Pointgiven lost 2,000 (folded)
EddieJ lost 2,000 (folded)
blitz321 lost 235,487 (showed hand) [ Ad As ] (two pair, aces and queens)
-----------------------------------------------------

So AA and the draw that hits the river sends me packing. I played my reads, and was pretty sure I was ahead.

I think I should have probably either pushed instead of checking the flop or checked and then folded to the bet. Oh well, thanks for the feedback.

-sloth

[Rocaix]

Easy push on the flop, chances are your way ahead. The fact someone made thier draw is irrelevant, cards happen. It's unlikely someone is holding another queen, given there are already 3 out of the deck.

I can't believe some are advocating he fold this with only 5XBB left. How many better opportunities is he going to have with such a small stack before he gets blinded off.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy push on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I would have come out betting the flop, pushing all-in. Now that you've got two all-ins in front of you, fold.

[TheGrifter]

This is a clear call. Those who are suggesting fold, are wrong.

This is the best opportunity you're likely going to get to win this tournament, if you fold you'll be all in with much less than trips very shortly.

I like to get my money in first, but the chance that you're way ahead here is too great, that combined with the fact that you're very short means you push them in.

[sloth469]

I thought about this afterwards. Perhaps (if I push AA folds, not likely but maybe). If AA folds the draw doesn't have as good of odds.

[TStoneMBD]

yah i cant see folding this hand with such a short stack. personally i like to check-call here to give someone a chance to bluff because i think its more likely that someone will bluff at the pot than someone who has a realistic chance at drawing out on me. you guys say push tho, care to elaborate why?

[gergery]

I think you played it perfectly.

Folding this is incredibly weak. There is only 1 other Q out there, and most people will only play AQ, KQ, QJ, QT. By contrast, they'll play and bluff or call any pair, any Ah Xh, any Kh Xh, A4, 54, and likely any suited connector of hearts. and maybe any A too.

The range of hands you are ahead of here is WAY bigger than the hands you are behind to, and with 5xBB and antes, you just can't fold this.

And if you're going to play it, giving the flushdraws and pairs a chance to bet is far more profitable than betting out.

The key here is the stack size -- since most of the table is <10xbb, everyone's standards will be loosening up, so the range of hands your opponnets have will be very wide.

--Greg