Cris offers the wager to Paul

[Ionphore]

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So what you're saying is, women should take the 199-to-1 shot (or whatever number you choose) of being raped, rather than wait for another elevator?

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And I also shouldn't drive my car today. And I shouldn't use the ATM. I shoudln't take a trip or drink tap water. I should just live in fear because a rapist is around every corner. RUN!

[ohgeetee]

It absolutely discounts the analogy.

Overusage of hyperbole is crappy arguing skills. The point of the extreme hyperbole is to completely derail the conversation, and it worked wonders here didn't it.

We're in a gambling forum, and just about everything is looked at from an odds perspective.

Cris has now basically inferred that cheating online at scrabble is equally likely to occur as the rape of a 12 year old girl, and that 1 in 5 girls will be sexually assaulted before they turn 18. Do you have any idea what the ratio of people met:times raped would be for a 12 year old girl? I can't put a realistic number on it, but I could easily say it is far far less like than the chances that you are going to find a cheater at scrabble online.

Just the fact that Cris is willing to argue that the chances are even remotely close kinda shows what version of reality she is living in.

My reccomendation to Cris is to step out of the imaginary romantic world of fantasy island, florida and have a seat in reality where theres a chance that more than just unemployed trailor trash lemmings looking for something to fill the gaps between the days of our lives and wheel of fortune might read what you write, and god forbid actually form an opinion about it.

[Avatar of Wine]

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Similarity #3: Both usually occur, at least in some part, due to (unnecesary) risk taken by the victim.


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WOW. Please post a cite or something for this abhorrent claim.

You are, by extension, claiming that there is some fault on the part of the raped, or at the very least some sensible or ordinary action that could have been taken to essentially eliminate the risk of being raped (this means 'normal beyond locking yourself in a closet'). You are claiming this for most every 'usual' case of rape - and while I'll cede there are things you can do to lower risk, I think that this kind of generalization is waaaay off base in general.

I simply don't believe it - post a cite, back up your claim with fact, otherwise you have shot CrisBrown's point in the back of the skull.

[Ulysses]

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El Diablo,

So what you're saying is, women should take the 199-to-1 shot (or whatever number you choose) of being raped, rather than wait for another elevator?

Cris

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What is wrong with you? Why do you almost completely ignore my message, including the direct question I asked you, and come up with some nonsensical response? I am not sure whether the issue is reading comprehension issues or simply problems with basic logical reasoning.

Yes, what I'm saying is that most women look at me in an elevator and decide that the chances I'm going to rape them are so close to zero that it definitely makes sense to get in the elevator with me rather than wait for another elevator. And guess what? They're right. I've never raped a woman in an elevator and don't plan to.

Sometimes, a woman will be in a situation where she sees a person in an elevator and decides that the chances of something bad happening are enough that it makes sense to wait for another elevator. Of course it is prudent to wait in that situation.

You said: Most women that I know will not get into an elevator alone with an unknown man. I am pointing out that for the majority of women I know or have come into contact with in my life, that statement is just plain false. The fact that they get into elevators alone with unknown men does not preclude them from making the decision in certain situations to not get in an elevator with an unknown man.

[Ulysses]

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One of the wonderful things about life is that you don't get to decide what I'm thinking.


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OK, so when you wrote the message below,

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Hi MDB,

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I say we settle this with an old fashion game of scrabble between Chris Brown and Paul Phillips. Reading their posts is like watching an episode of Dawson's Creek. The Vegas line is Paul Phillips at a 3 to 1 favorite.

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I'll take that action any day and twice on Sunday, for my entire bankroll. There is simply no way that Paul would be a 3:1 favorite over me in Scrabble. That's not to say he might not be a favorite -- who knows -- but 3:1? Nah. I'm a novelist, and words are my stock-in-trade.

Cris

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you are claiming that you didn't feel this was a very +EV wager on which you'd want to stake a lot of money?

Please.

[Ulysses]

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Hi El Diablo,

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Your take on Paul Phillips raping your daughter vs. you cheating in some manner at online Scrabble: They are equally reasonable, or equally unreasonable.

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No. My take is that if Paul didn't call me a cheater (and he says he didn't), then I didn't call him a rapist, as we used identical logical structures in our respective statements.

Cris

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See below. I have already stated why these things, while using the same logical structure, are not a reasonable comparison.

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Sephus,

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Paul is saying that he doesn't know you well enough to know with a good degree of certainty that you won't cheat in order to make yourself good at scrabble. This is perfectly reasonable.

You are saying that you don't know Paul well enough to know with absolute certainty that he won't rape your daughter, which is an absolutely stupid premise and one of the worst examples you could possibly think of.

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They are equally reasonable, or equally unreasonable. I have no more basis to assess whether Paul would commit rape than he has to assess whether I would cheat.

[shemp]

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Actually, I believe that cheating at scrabble and rape do indeed have essential simmilarities that pertain to this argument.

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You are welcome to this view. I said as much before. Stating so is not a response to what I had written. I wrote about why one chooses such an analogy.

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There are enough relevant similarities here to construct a valid analogy.

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Analogy is not argument -- it is a rhetorical tool in lieu of or at the service of argument. "construct a valid analogy" is a category error. "enough relevant similarities" is irrelevant-- at different levels of abstraction different numbers of similarities/differences exist -- the number and nature of same is but a happy diversion for people who like to argue, but don't know how.

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You are falling into the trap that everyone else has fallen on this thread of assuming that severity of the two actions automatically discounts the analogy.

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One chooses one's level of abstraction. That is all. "severity of the two actions automatically discounts the analogy" comes from a perspective completely understood, and summarily dismissed as fundamentally ignorant of the nature and uses of analogy and argument.

[Knockwurst]

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Most women that I know will not get into an elevator alone with an unknown man.

What world do you live in? Of all the elevators I've ever been in alone in my life that have stopped at a floor with a single woman there waiting for an elevator, the vast, vast majority of times the woman got in the elevator with me.

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El Diablo, does that include those times you're wearing your wrestling mask and cape? [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[Ulysses]

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

[heavybody]

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One in five girls in the U.S. will be sexually assaulted before her 18th birthday. It's a fact. Look it up.

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In other words it is a fact before it has happened? And what exactly do you mean by "sexually assaulted".

You no Cris...it's amazing your a mother at all with your attitude,I mean why take the chance on having children when one of them might be a boy a.k.a.(potential rapist) I'm surprised any man would have allowed you to be a mother. I wouldn,t of.