Should I buy the original Super System?

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi lwbecker:

We've been a little lacking at updating the information. But the 2004 version is all we have been shipping for the past few months. However, there may be a few 1999 versions out there, but if you purchase from this site (www.twoplustwo.com), you should get the most recent one.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Hai Lang]

I am new to this forum. To be fair to Mason, he did recommend book that is not 2+2. My first question in this forum is about NL advanced Holdem books. Mason immediately recommend Dan Harrington's book (comming soon). I have read Mason (with Ray ..etc)'s book at 7 stud. It surprised me Mason answers question in this forum and he answers them so far (within minutes of my post).

[DrPhysic]

Mason,
Could you give us a list of the twoplustwo books that have more than one version, with dates? ie:
Gambling Theorey AOT, 1999, 2004

I just checked mine and I have the 1999 version. I presume there is enough update to justify buying the newer one?

Which other books have you updated?

Doc [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Doc:

The only change we made in the text was the addition of one footnote. There are more reviews in the 2004 edition than in the 1999 edition, but all the additional reviews have been posted here. So there's no need for you to purchase the current edition of Gambling Theory and Other Topics.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Blarg:

I want to add a little bit more to this since there's an area that almost no one understands correctly and which we get attacked on.

I strongly believe that the non-Two Plus Two books that hurt our sales are the crummy ones. That's because when someone new walks into a bookstore and purchases a poker book, and they are usually expensive as far as books go in general, and it's a terrible book two things happen.

First, in most cases, they are usually able to see that it is a terrible book, even if they don't understand poker very well. Second, they assume that poker books in general are awful, and they don't buy any more.

I have spent many hours on the phone and countless letters and emails, recommending to book buyers the better poker books whether they are ours or someone elses in the hope that these books will get on the shelves at the major bopok stores instead of some of the garbage that is currently there.

Now when a new player buys a pretty good book, they'll often think, "Hey, I just spent $25.00 but this book was really worth thousands of dollars to me. I'm going to go back and buy some more of these poker books."

That is the initial sale is crucial. If the customer is happy they'll come back for more. We see this effect directly with the sales of our books. Many new customers will purchase one book their first time in, and their second time around, they'll buy five or six.

Now this brings us to Super/System 2. I sincerely hope that it is terrific. Because of the prestige that Doyle has, and the publicity that he and this book will get, lots of new players are going to make it their first purchase. If it's top notch, many of them will come back and buy a bunch of other poker books and in this bunch will be several of ours.

If it turns out that SS2 is not so hot, and I don't believe that will be the case, we won't get in on the next round of buying because there won't be a next round of buying.

Best wishes,
Mason

[djack]

[ QUOTE ]
I am new to this forum. To be fair to Mason, he did recommend book that is not 2+2. My first question in this forum is about NL advanced Holdem books. Mason immediately recommend Dan Harrington's book (comming soon).

[/ QUOTE ] Harrington's book is a 2+2 book.

Mason does recommend non-2+2 stuff, but only if it meets his requirements, and not much does that.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have seen many of my book reviews you would know that I have always stated that the stud section in Super System is excellent. As for Ray Zee's stud book, I happened to think that it too is pretty good. By the way, Ray had two co-authors on that book, they were David Sklansky and myself.

Ray is the sole author on High-Low-Split Poker for Advanced Players.



[/ QUOTE ]

As I repeated and shouldn't have had to, and shouldn't have to again, Mason, I was responding regarding your stud comments. (You did make the same trapping comments about stud as you did about no-limit hold'em, and they were indeed a little peremptory.) Obviously, having read Ray Zee's book over and over and recommended it to everyone I can over and over, indeed in this very thread, I'm well aware by now that you're the publisher and co-author.

I'm also well aware of how highly Chip Reese's stud section is still regarded. Your comment in this thread seemed out of character.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
I strongly believe that the non-Two Plus Two books that hurt our sales are the crummy ones

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the crummy ones also can make people play losing poker long enough to make them quit not just reading poker books, but sometimes player poker altogether.

Me, I'm always on the look-out for what you guys put on the market, although if I never see another "poker humor" article or book again, it will be too soon.

I'll also look at other books and give an honest opinion on them when the topic comes up, too. The standards your company and authors set are sufficiently high that if I've gotten used to high standards myself, and if I wind up finding solid value in a book that's not put out by 2+2, I'm surprised. It does and can happen, though, which doesn't detract a thing from the efforts of you and your 2+2 crew.

[Mason Malmuth]

You need to read what I wrote again. My comments about trapping had nothing to do with stud. If you for some reason thought that's what they said, then you misunderstood what I meant.

By the way, stud played with a decent size ante, which our book addresses and which Super/System addresses is not a trapping game anyway.

MM

[skibum]

If only to have read the book that changed poker and poker literature as we know it, yes.
If only for the value of the poker knowledge between the covers, yes.
If only for the entertainment value, yes.
Will it still pay for itself over and over and over again? Yes.