Keep 'em in or drive 'em out?

[SoCalPat]

SSHE says to do just that -- forsake paying customers by raising when the pot is large and you've got several draws to the best hand.

What I failed to take into account -- warning: perils of multi-tabling account to follow -- is that the BB was a complete clown. I discovered that through the previous hands and the chat transcript that came along with it. He once 3-bet 25o from the BB, and after this hand, he said he flopped two pair.

Had I know his playing habits, I would've certainly raised the flop in an attempt to isolate, and if others wanted to come along, bully for me.

[Brain]

I know. I didn't play enough and got too much sun today. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Entity]

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clean up overcards

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What overcards would you like to clean up? You're only behind AK and that would have been re-raised behind you (and if BB has it, he's not folding). I would like them to call 2 cold, but I wasn't sure if they would.

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I want A2 and A5 to fold here. If they don't, I want them to add as much value as possible when my flush hits.

[SparkyDog]

I might flat call the flop, mostly depending on how loose the people behind me are and my current mood. =)

Raising the turn when you pick up 4 more outs is a must though. Giving you best case scenario 19 outs, but probably closer to 15. However, being reverse dominated by Ace-rag is a legit concern with the board, so raising the flop certainly isn't bad. Both are +EV, and I'm not sure the difference is a whole lot.

[nepenthe]

The pot is big. Raise this flop for value AND/OR to clean up overcards.

[wabe]

Personally, I would raise the flop. As it was already mentioned, someone that would come along for the ride would likely come along on the raise, and you might clean up some of your competition.

[StellarWind]

It's very important to drive out hands like A2 and Q5 out. Maybe we should hack their PCs and force them to fold [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img].

Let's get real folks. They probably don't even have those exact hands. If they do have them we probably won't hit our 2-out overcard anyway. Besides, your low-limit opponents will never fold these hands and for once they are quite right.

What raising may do is force out the overcard hands. That's good if you have the best hand and can win without improving. It's bad if you need to improve to win because you reduce both immediate value on the flop and implied odds for the later streets.

The 3-bet out of the BB tells you that you are very unlikely to win without improving. Usually he can beat you and when he can't someone else probably flopped a pair. Quietly call the flop and turn and maximize your draws.

Of course, if you realize in a timely manner that BB has lost his marbles, then the raise is correct because he probably has nothing and is just fooling around again. It helps to watch the table.

[Entity]

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It's very important to drive out hands like A2 and Q5 out. Maybe we should hack their PCs and force them to fold [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img].

Let's get real folks. They probably don't even have those exact hands. If they do have them we probably won't hit our 2-out overcard anyway. Besides, your low-limit opponents will never fold these hands and for once they are quite right.

What raising may do is force out the overcard hands. That's good if you have the best hand and can win without improving. It's bad if you need to improve to win because you reduce both immediate value on the flop and implied odds for the later streets.

The 3-bet out of the BB tells you that you are very unlikely to win without improving. Usually he can beat you and when he can't someone else probably flopped a pair. Quietly call the flop and turn and maximize your draws.

Of course, if you realize in a timely manner that BB has lost his marbles, then the raise is correct because he probably has nothing and is just fooling around again. It helps to watch the table.

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It seems like raising here gets the best of both worlds. If they have A5 and they, like you say, won't fold, then they call and your raise is for value.

If they have A5, and, against what you say, fold their middle pair, then you've cleaned up overcards.

Either way I think raising is the correct play.

Rob

[Cerril]

I think you want to be clearing up Q-rag and A-rag so that you can make top pair and win, without worrying about two pair or a gutshot. Obviously if you make a flush you're way ahead but it's better here to try to buy more outs with a raise. I consider this a textbook case, really.