Mediocre 3 Flushes

[bbooze]

I primarily play in a dime ante $1/2 game online, which allows me to play tight enough to navigate two tables at once. Obviously, I try not to get involved in too many marginal situations, since there isn't much point in it.

This type of hand comes up every 30 minutes or so, and I don't know how to play it.

I have (2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Bring In showing 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] pays the $.50.
Besides him two more of my diamonds are dead, and a 9 and 4 are dead too. It's called in 4 places and the action is on me to close 3rd.... do you make the call?

It's a $.50 call into a $3.20 pot (7 handed), but is this starter simply too awful to gamble on? As we all know, when 6 people see 4th St there's a decent chance a small flush won't even hold up if it hits.


Another variation of this example....
I hold (T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I bring it in for $.50. Two of my hearts are dead this time, as well as 2 tens. An Ace to my left raises, it's called in one place by a Queen; action's on me.
Again it's a $.50 call into a $3.20 pot... should I make it?


Good news is my flush is slightly more alive, and there's a better chance of it or some other accidental hand of holding up only 3 handed; bad news is that it'll be hard to disguise my flush if it hits, and the Ace is sure to charge me on every street.

How do you fellas play this one?

[MRBAA]

The first example is really close. If you play well, you can make a loose call here.

The second situation is an easy, easy fold.

Do you see why?

[bbooze]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it because the tens are all but dead? I'm not sure.

[bbooze]

Or wait... is it because the fact that it's 3 handed means that I won't be getting the odds to draw on later streets, so it's smarter to fold up shop now?

[MRBAA]

Sorry for the annoying question. But no, the main reason in my opinion is that in the first example you (a) are getting better immediate odds (b) are more likely to get a free card on fourth (c) have a better chance of a pair being good if you hit that on fourth.

Someone raising makes a huge difference both in your immediate price and in the likelihood of how the rest of the hand will be played.

[timmer]

I see these both as pretty obvious folds on 3rd.

Perhaps a closer look is merited after dinner.

Bruurp!! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Let me start off by saying that folding either of these hands you cant be wrong by much. And if you play these type hands in a wholesale manner you are likely to lose money with them. Also, if you dont know how to play these weak flush hands I recommend you fold them all.

Ok, well... the first is a easy fold you are more likely to get into trouble if you play this hand, fold it. It likely isnt worth the dime you got in there. Muck it without a second thought. I hate weak hands for the most part and against a crowd they really stink. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Knowledge of your opponents is a big factor in playing these weak hands especially in the bring in.

Now, the second hand is just about worse but not quite. I wouldnt play this hand for a small bet or in early or mid position. It is quite unlikely that I would play this in late position either.

In this case I feel you should take the 6.5:1 for a quarter bet.

It includes a STR8 Flush out Admittedly this 3 gap out alone is no where near enough to play this piggy.

A big plus is that your call ends the action. Additionally, You will likely be last on the next street as well,in fact, you will likely be last through out the hand unless you open pair.

Another, over calling may have some benifits against your smart but not to smart opponents. (The timing of your call should be measured properly for maximum effect.)

Also, opponents in this game often play and Bare A or weak Q are quite readable and dont know the true ramifications that card duplication pose.

If your opponents catch badly and you catch a high heart your not in a bad place. Especially if it duplicates your opponents up card. If you catch a 2, a heart or a scary card on 4th you can freeze up the betting on the big bet streets with a surprize raise on 4th.

If you brick ( and they catch good) you can dump it on 4th with out a second thought rather than overcall again [1] and not look like a target for steals.

These opponents will often check many streets after raising on 3rd.

A good player will dump that first ugly beotch in a heart beat. With the second, he might find some room to jerk the A and Q around some under the right circumstances and against the right opponents.


Just my few cents

timmer

[1] Overcalling twice can set up a 5th street steal if the right card comes but this play is beyond the understanding of most all opponents at the lower and perhaps even the lower mid limits.

[Andy B]

I'll post this before reading the other responses. I probably over-value three-flushes more than any other regualr poster here. That said, your hand is a fold in both spots. A three-flush with no high card strength and three flush cards gone is unplayable. In the second hand, your hand is almost as dead, and you don't have the multi-way action that you want with a three-flush. Muck and move on.

I'm not terribly worried about the flush not being good if it gets there. I'm very worried about it getting there at all, though.

This post brought to you by Summit Extra Pale Ale.

[Andy B]

The first hand might almost be playable if the bring-in were smaller. At a half-bet, even with a big ante, I don't think that you can play this hand.

[MRBAA]

You're not giving up much (or anything) if you fold the first hand. But if your opponents are truly awful, I'd probably limp in and hope to catch perfect on fourth.

[skibum]

I can't find anything even remotely redeeming about either of those hands. And I look hard for reasons to play.