Annie Duke and the TOC

[Dominic]

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WHY AM I AN "ASS" IF I THINK DUKE IS A BAD POKER PLAYER? why would i be an ass if i thought hasselhoff is a good actor? that just doesnt make sense. aren't ass's people who are unreasonable, selfish, or mean etc? how can you say im any of these on the basis that i think annie duke is a bad poker player? and if you disagree with me that she's a bad player, PLEASE TELL ME WHY. don't just start calling me an ass.

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No.

[nolanfan34]

Blank,

I will give you the honest answer you're looking for in response. I understand your points, and have a few replies.

1. Like fnurt said, when you put up the $2 mil, you can decide who plays. ESPN has done a lot of work promoting certain players over the past few years, and since Annie won her first bracelet this year, it's really not that surprising that they decided to include her.

Regarding Gus, I may be wrong, but I don't believe he has won a bracelet yet. I like him a lot, and think he'd be a great player to watch, but in reality I can think of 20 players at least that would be fun to watch at something like this. In the end it's a made-for-TV event, I don't think the makeup of the table is worth wasting breath to talk about.

2. Part of the reason you're receiving a hostile response to your link is the fact that this topic has been discussed many, many, many times over the past 6 months while I've been a member here. A simple check of the search function would probably show that this has been discussed ad naseum.

Now, I don't care whether people like Annie or not, but part of those threads included her looking past all of the insults and judging from PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED WITH HER, and responding with her side of the story. Basically she said she and Daniel have both put his post behind them, so most people on this site hope everyone will do the same.

Annie only has 80 or so posts on this site, it wouldn't take long to read some of her responses.

3. If you want to discuss certain hands from last night's event, we're all up for that. Most of them have been discussed in many different threads already.

Frankly, if you think that you can judge someone's play based on the few hands on TV, that's nuts. I guarantee you, ANYONE who would have won that event last night was only going to have to win coinflips and hit some big flops. What tournament is won without that happening? These players were too good to outplay one another with escalating blind structures.

[blank]

ok well now ure being unreasonable and mean. i don't think im being immature one here, and i definently dont think i deserved to be called an ass from you. if we were in real life you'd probably pick a fight with me now since you cant beat me verbally. which is fine by me.

[Slacker13]

Yet another no talent poker player trying to explain this & that about poker. Concentrate on your game.

[blank]

thank you for atleast being civil.

yea i guess i misused the term coin-toss in this post, but im sure you know what i meant. she was on the ropes the whole time during the tournament, and i think a better player wouldve played more consistently and not need to be in those situations too often.

like i already said, i think the 9 was a good play, and i know phil had been doing it too. thats why (like i said before) i dont think phil fell for it.

your points about gus and harmon are definently sound, i do think it shouldve been greenstein then.

all in all, i still don't feel annie is at the caliber of the other players (not including raymer) at the TOC, and i feel her win was mostly based on good luck.

and i agree with you that chan and howard's play was pretty much flawless.

[Wayfare]

There are no "dues" in poker. If you win, you win.

She won. I was actually relatively impressed that she beat helmuth on the end, especially after she got all all emotional after cracking her brother.

[Beavis68]

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I'm sorry, but not only did Annie Duke not deserve to belong at the TOC, her win was complete bs.

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Annie has been on the poker scene for a long time, and has been on the tourney scene for a long time, she was an early face in the WPT. This was a sponsored event and she is a known face. She was a bracelet this year - she is a champion, she deserved to be there because of the mark she has made on promoting the game. Gus has won just a few tournaments, but so what, Chris Hinchcliff has had some success too. Barry is great, but he is mostly a cash player - as is Harmen (and she is a limit player at that)- and he is not that well known.

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Annie Duke has ONE bracelet at the WSOP, she is known to be a rude, classless, and cheating player at the table, and she has no other major tournament wins.

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Yeah she does, that is one more than Gus. Most poker players have their bad moments, it is a competive, cut-throat, low-margin, high-stress game. She also does not play as often as many others do to the fact that she is raising a family.

I was really impressed that she hoped on to the forum so quickly to defend Greg, THAT is class.

She definitely has more class than Hellmuth.

Daniel has done some pretty lame things and been pretty rude and insulting at the table (see the FSN coverage and his hand with Tom Keller "I was hoping you would do that"). Most of the stuff you are talking about happened over 4 years ago. Becareful about calling people cheaters.

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Annie Duke won 5 televised coin tosses at the TOC, FIVE. She was constantly the short stack until the end which tells you something about her play in-between these coin tosses, and her last coin-toss with her brother was just disgusting (not to mention the river 10 of Hellmuth, w/o I'm certain Chan would've won the whole thing). She didn't deserve to be in the tournament, and she won off a series of coin-tosses which by no means displays any real skill in poker. It's a coin toss for chrissake.

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So I guess Phil didn't deserve it either, because he outdraw Chan as a 4:1 underdog and Howard didn't deserve it because he caught a lot of cards and won a coin toss with Raymer.

She deserved it because she was the last one sitting. I am not aware of 5 coin tosses for all of her chips. I guess TJ deserved it because he was knocked out on a coin toss?

Annie was short stacked because she had to laydown a few good hands early. She gambled when she needed to and played her stack very well. You didn't see her losing 150 chips with suited junk cards or calling all-ins with 98o do you?

If phil made all the right moves he would have won, the guy was afraid to gamble (folding his AQ). She helped put him on tilt and got him to go all-in with the worst hand. I wish we could see all the heads-up hands. If Phil thought she was realy 30:1, I would have taken that bet, I would have taken it on Raymer too. I don't think she was any worse than 15:1, and I wouldn't have take 10:1 on Phil, that is for sure, Howard is the only one I would have taken that bet on.

WTG Annie!

[Gronk]

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would i be an ass if i thought hasselhoff is a good actor?

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I wouldn't call you an ass if you thought hasselhoff is a good actor because it's not nice to tease retarded people.

[Slacker13]

Just to clarify, my reason for the earlier post is I am more than tired of hearing someone talk down the play of someone who has made alot of money playing poker, not only that but the person you are talking about wears a WSOP bracelet. What are your accomplishments? I can accept someone asking why a player did this or that, but to listen to some of the morons who play .50/1.00 on party tell me how a pro poker player sucks is just stupid. Your next post will be asking Annie how to play AK from the button.

[blank]

yea i can see you and wombat's point about duke and lederer being a selling point espn is trying to push. and i wasnt aware that my link was so played out on this forum, i just started posting here 2 weeks ago, before i just read whatever poker articles there were online and what my friends showed me.

and wombat already made some good points why gus isnt there, though i really think greenstein wouldbe been good.

thanks for the civil reply.