maybe a little chip dumping between annie and howard? why not? - Page 2

pokerraja · #11 09-22-2004, 01:10 AM

I actually dont think you guys did collude. im talking from a purely street hustlers/ pool players background.
but would you of made that call with 66 if it was against phil in that same situation?

3rdEye · #12 09-22-2004, 01:17 AM

The fact that this was a winner-take-all event was something I hadn't considered. This of course makes sibling collusion less likely.

Annie Duke · #13 09-22-2004, 01:23 AM

Phil was playing a very different style than my brother--very very tight. You saw the laydown with AQ for example. So probably not. My brother got all his chips by playing extremely aggressive, all-in poker so 66 rated to be the best hand and I am willing to gamble a race in a winner take all event. But Phil was p[laying super tight so if I did call it would have taken me a helluva a lot longer. But probably no, I would have folded given the way Phil was playing.

Annie

pokerraja · #14 09-22-2004, 01:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Phil was playing a very different style than my brother--very very tight. You saw the laydown with AQ for example. So probably not. My brother got all his chips by playing extremely aggressive, all-in poker so 66 rated to be the best hand and I am willing to gamble a race in a winner take all event. But Phil was p[laying super tight so if I did call it would have taken me a helluva a lot longer. But probably no, I would have folded given the way Phil was playing.

Annie

[/ QUOTE ]

makes good sense. thanks for the response annie. and again i did not mean to come off with the accusations.

Yeknom58 · #15 09-22-2004, 01:49 AM

I think he means once Annie or howard goes all in and phil folds the other one would call with any half reasonable hand hoping to double the other one up. Where as they could fold hands versus phil unless they thought they had a reasoanble edge. I'm not saying that's what happen I'm just saying it would be really easy to do and not get caught.

Daliman · #16 09-22-2004, 01:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I am so offended at this suggestion that I can't even believe it. That is not something in the realm of either Howard's or my possibilities. In fact, I can't even believe I am dignifying this with a response.

Annie

[/ QUOTE ]

Dangit, Annie, you just did...

KanigawaCards7 · #17 09-22-2004, 01:58 AM

and by the way congratulations.

OPJayhawk · #18 09-22-2004, 02:37 AM

I think the play they made would be the exact opposite way they would play if they were colluding.

A much more effective way would have been for the two of them to take turns attacking Phil's blind while not attacking each other.

They did the exact opposite.

PacmanKS

slickpoppa · #19 09-22-2004, 02:37 AM

I don't think Annie and Howard were colluding, but I think collusion is a legit concern in a single table, winner-take-all tournament.
I also think that some interesting ethical questions are raised when two friends or family members are playing at a tournament of this style. For example, let's imagine the tournament is down to three players with even stacks and that two family members are in a hand heads-up against each other. One of them, who has been playing really tight, raises all-in preflop, and the other looks at his hand and sees JJ. Noramlly, this person would fold JJ against a tight raiser, but because the raiser is his brother he thinks to himself: "Well, I would normally fold this hand, but there is a chance that I'm slightly ahead against an AK. Since this is a winner take all tournament, I'm willing to gamble a little bit so I can be a 2-1 favorite against the third guy. And even if lose, I won't be that upset because my brother gets all my chips and he will be the favorite against the other guy. I'd much rather lose my chips to him than the other guy." Then he calls.
Is there anything wrong with the fact that his relationship to the raiser comes into his decision to call?

slickpoppa · #20 09-22-2004, 02:42 AM

Possibly, but by trying to sandwich Phil they run the risk of him catching a good hand and taking a lot of chips from both of them, leaving them at a collective disadvantage. But if one of them gives all of their chips to the other in a heads up hand, they make the other a big favorite against Phil heads up.