Planned check-raise, now what?

[SlyAK]

Wayfare,

You really would put this guy on a set here? I dont know many players who will overbet the pot with a set, (at least not at prima). I thought the play was more likely another AK, a slow-played AA, (although I didnt really think this player would slowplay), or maybe a pocket pair that missed the flop trying to take down the pot there, when I showed 'weakness by checking'. I think it is also conceiveable that he could have KQ or KJ.


Still the problem with check-raising is he probably folds the hands that I beat and calls with anything I am beating. I'm still unsure on this one....

Sly

[VarlosZ]

I'm also surprised that so many people put him on a set. It's certainly a possibility, and perhaps enough of one to justify a fold, but isn't it about as likely that villain puts hero on, say, QQ and decides to force him out?

Incidentally, if villain really does have the best hand, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see bottom two-pair -- many players will make a mini-raise in late positon w/ suited connectors.

[cornell2005]

ewww. why are people putting him on a set. you wont find many players that will overbet the pot like that with a hand that beats yours, when checked to him, on a drawless board. everything points to you pushing. he could have anything from a weak pair to a king.

when you try to check raise you LOVE when he overbets here. of course the standard is to bet out, but check raising can be thrown in sometimes vs some opponents

[bunky9590]

after showing weakness by checking and his subsequent overbet. I can't see a reason to lay this hand down. Without a very accurate read to the contrary, it seems like he's getting out of line and very well could be the same hand you are holding sans the backdoor flush draw.

I may very well make the exception with a bankroll and put this cat to the test for his entire stack. (I know you have the bankroll to do it)

[fatduck]

I'm leaning toward a fold here, but I'm chronically weak-tight so maybe you shouldn't listen to me [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Assuming you want to go to the felt with this, though, I wonder if the best move is to push over the top on him on the flop or call-push on the turn.

[SlyAK]

Results:

I think about it for a few seconds and push. Villain thinks for a few seconds and calls. Turn and river are both blanks, i.e. not clubs, A or K.

Villain takes it down with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for the flopped set.

I really like the way he played his hand. Very few people will overbet the pot with the set here. He certainly makes it look like he was trying to buy the pot, and I was fairly certain that we were either tied, or I was way ahead. I would have been much more suspicious of a 1/2 to 2/3 pot bet than I was of the overbet.

Anyway, live and learn, I've got a note on him now, so if this situation comes up again perhaps I can save my stack. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Sly

[Wayfare]

DAMN was my read good.

He expects you to checkraise, he expects you to have AA/AK/QQ (gives up on KK) and instead overbets the pot to get a reasonable player to push.

I wish I had the ability to play this good, not just analyze it after the hand.

EDIT: It was the min raise that gave it away.

[SlyAK]

I see a lot of players that also min-raise with hands like AK or KQ though. Although I would agree that a min-raise is probably more common with a small/medium pocket pair.

Nice read on the hand though!

Sly

[Kirkrrr]

Your raise from the SB very well defined your range of hands. If he's a decent player, he probably realized what happened and is about to take your stack. Agonize for a few minutes, fold and then move on.

Quite honestly, if there isn't too many limpers (4 or less), I'll just call from the SB/BB with AK, and sometimes raise with 7-7/6,7. If you hit, you're taking someone's stack. If you don't and there's several high cards, you bet out and take it down more often then not anyway. But I hate raising with AK from the front to avoid these exact situations.

My 2c worth.

Kirk R.

[ohiou]

This is why I use the check-raise in NL very sparingly. I just try to do it enough to keep people honest. The problem I see with check-raise is that you are not sure if the opponent is reacting to your feigned weakness by betting or if he has you beat.