when someone allins preflop for an obscene amount...

[Jon34]

UB .50/1 NLHE, I'm pretty new to the table, so no reads.
I get QQ and raise pot, to 3.50, in UTG+1.
MP goes all in, and he has me covered, so its my 94 and change stack back to me. What do you do?

In general my heart tells me that I have only 3.50 invested in this tiny pot, its not worth my whole stack with just queens. But what is the +EV play here when you don't have a read? I've seen some people do this with 24o, others with A6s, 55 etc...but a rare few who do this with AA as a ploy to get the raiser all in. I even once saw a guy on paradise who did this with AA, KK, and AK.

My thought process was that he has AA a good percentage of the time, but I could have him dominated often enough to make the call +EV.
At $25 or $50 NL games I seem to think that its a much easier call, but the 100 games and up seem to not have as many complete idiots.

So what do you do in these situations?
Does it make a difference if you have KK?


Results:
<font color="white"> I thought for a while, leaning towards a fold, and a 3rd player starts making comments about how the guy is a clown, and obviously has a marginal hand. I call, he shows AA, and I fail to suckout. I knew the allin'er was either an idiot or trying to induce the call w/ AA, so I basically just called and hoped for the former. It could have been the 3rd guy who tilted me into the call, I don't know (heck he could have been the raiser's friend for all I know). In any case, I would just like a little more guidance in these situations. Thanks in advance. </font>

[fimbulwinter]

the question here is not whether this is +EV, it's whether you should even bother. these games are so soft that you really dont need to be squeezing "this is very slightly EV long run" moves out to beat the game. calling a legit all-in without a read with QQ in a cash game is nuts, if you ask me. let him outplay you for 3.50, i'f he's really a nut, he'll pay you off later, if not, you made a good fold.

fim

[The4thFilm]

I don't see him doing this with AJ, so yea you're either about 5% ahead or waaay behind.

[Jon34]

I don't see him doing this with AJ, AK, or KK for that matter. To me its either AA or a quite marginal holding, such as Ax/Axs, 66 or less, or utter rags. The question is which is more common. If its about 40% or more AA, then its a fold. I was just wondering if anyone had a lot of experience at these levels and had a good gauge of how often of each it is in the long run.

[ChipLeader]

No one is going to risk 100.00 to take 3.50, no one. I think you just thought those queens were hot and have trouble laying em down. WORST hand he could have is AKs in my opinion, but AA or KK is far more likely, he wants to protect his hand and he knows oyu got a decent one, so he pushes. NEVER make this call again... trust me.

[Centrist]

Oh, I think there are lots of people who push with marginal hands. There's a whole little subculture of maniacs who push constantly when they have one buyin, because they don't feel like they're "playing" until they've built to 2 or 3 buyins. Some of them even continue to push in some very marginal situations once they have 3 or 4 buyins. They're the ones who will *really* pay you off if you manage to build to 2 or 3 buyins yourself.

Whether you call might even depend on when you're playing. New to the table, with no read on anyone, I'd be more inclined to think it's a crazy guy on a Friday night than, say, a Tuesday afternoon.

[Wayfare]

If people started folding to this move, I would lose 1/3 of my BB/100.

The Adam R. / Dave S. move of honor!!! "He COULDN'T have AA!!"

[Centrist]

I do think this raises a larger question of how to bust the maniacs.

The obvious thing is you get a big hand -- a flopped set, made flush or straight -- let them bluff at you and take them down.

Problem is, you can go a long, long while with no flopped set, straight, or flush. Meanwhile, maniac with $400 at a $100 table is trying to give away his money. It won't be there forever.

The question is whether you can really read someone as pushing with bad hands. Some do it with bottom pair, or middle pair ... some with top pair, bad kicker ... some with any flush or straight draw. So if you have top pair, decent kicker, do you call?

Ask yourself what proportion of the time he pushes with a lousy hand. Is it 80% of his pushes, or 50%? If he's a real maniac, get an ok hand and take him.

I faced that a couple days ago holding AJ, with a flopped Ace. I definitely read the guy as the truly crazy kind of maniac, but still felt very unsure about the call. I took a moment to psychologically adjust to the idea of getting beaten by this guy, and then went for it. He showed bottom pair.

A lot of these guys will push with things like top pair, bad kicker. So my mediocre hand -- AJ -- dominates a lot of hands this guy would push with.

That's the larger question -- how do you lower your standards, if at all, when playing against Mr. Crazy Guy?

[GimmeDaWatch]

Tru dat Wayfare. Uhhh, this is a patented Party Poker Special move I myself have engaged in on many an occasion and it never fails to amaze me how often I am called using this primitive and obvious ploy (and by much less than QQ usually). You do see it quite a bit less on UB or Stars in the tighter 100BB buy-in games, but there's no reason on earth to be calling this raise. If he's a maniac who moves in all the time with whatever, he will reveal himself as such pretty quickly, and you can make a little notey poo and call him next time. The other 90% of the time, its hope for a queen or kiss your stack goodbye.

[cagedman]

Two types of people do this:

1) Maniacs with 1010 or lower, Axs.

2) Good players with AA/KK imitating 1).

I usually insta-call because it's about an even call in my book and it adds a little excitement to my grind.