Party $1mil AA hand

j.k. · #1 09-19-2004, 02:28 AM

This hand is from the million dollar party tourney tonight. To preface this hand let me say that I have been playing limit holdem in the 5/10 - 30/60 range for 4 years but never ventured much into no limit (tournies or otherwise) for whatever reason. As such I am troubled by this hand that some of you more seasoned in NL tournies might not think twice about. The big question is obviously the turn but I would appreciated comments on any and all streets (especially betting amounts). Am I just bitter that AA got beat and the turn was an easy fold or is there room for debate here?
This is also only the third hand of the tourney, so no reads but I think this is important in the turn decision.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed)

BB (t1500)
UTG (t1485)
UTG+1 (t1560)
UTG+2 (t1485)
MP1 (t1540)
MP2 (t1485)
j.k. (t1500)
CO (t1490)
Button (t1470)
SB (t1485)

Preflop: j.k. is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises to t60, MP2 folds, j.k. raises to t120, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls t60.

Flop: (t265) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, j.k. bets t100, MP1 calls t100.

Turn: (t465) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, j.k. bets t250, MP1 raises to t500, j.k. calls t250.

River: (t1465) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets t500, j.k. calls t500.

Final Pot: t2465

He ended up having Q10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] leaving me with about 300 in chips 3 hands into the tourney. On a lighter note I managed to squeeze every bit out of that 300 and outlasted 1300 people but alas...in the end KK ran into AK who ran into an A35 flop....

thanks for answering what I suspect is an easy question,
j.k.

reecelights · #2 09-19-2004, 02:47 AM

Preflop: Your bet isn't horrible, it helped you build a pot w/AA. But, I'd bet 180, 3x his raise. It's just as important to establish table image early on here as it is to try to milk a pot when there are over 1000 people in the tourney. He's probably gone with a 3x raise, but he raised with QT in the first place so maybe not.

Flop: you way underbet. Bet at least the amount in the pot (it looks like 265). Probably overbet the pot (300-400). Tell him you have Aces with your bet.

It would be hard to fold on the turn but I think you can since he called a value bet on the flop. I would, however, be worried, especially this early in. I'm a little weak-tight in multitables, so I'd probably lay it down (although I'm not that successful in MTTs).

In general in No Limit, you want to raise at least 3x the bet (BB or raise), unless you REALLY want a call. If someone has limped preflop, you probably have to raise 4-5xBB to drive them out. Pick up the pots early in the tourney, save the fancier play for later.

TomCollins · #3 09-19-2004, 03:49 AM

I can definitely tell you play limit. You are not betting enough. You want to sucker him in for more bets. AA is not as strong as a hand as you might imagine in NL. It's very easy to get overconfident and be way behind.

I really don't like your mini raise preflop. If you want to milk him with AA, don't raise. If you want to raise, RAISE. You are letting him know you have a strong hand without making him pay.

On the turn, your bet is way too small. Again, you think this flop missed him and want him to stick around to improve.

But since this is Party, he probably is going to call any regular sized bet on the flop with top pair, since people on Party don't know how to fold top pair. Once the turn hits, you are done, but you have several outs. I have a hard time folding here, especially since clowns will do that just as easily with QJ. I figure there is a good chance I'm behind, but a decent amount in the pot.

In NL tournaments, you have to be focused on not losing a pot, you have to win them when you can. Only hands that are near-locks are really worth slowplaying much.

patrick dicaprio · #4 09-19-2004, 11:31 AM

you may be bitter but i think you recognize that you played this one wrong. firstly preflop you have to raise more here. I would raise to about 200. if you are called you have to bet at least the size of the pot on the flop or push depending on how big your stack is. if you had raised to 200 and were called, there would be about 500 in the pot, and you would have over 1200 so betting the pot seems right but i can see an argument for pushing here but i wouldnt. if you are called the tread carefully on the turn.

Pat

EnderW27 · #5 09-19-2004, 01:51 PM

I actually don't mind the small raise pf. It tells the rest of the table to get out of your way, but at the same time prices the raiser in for a call.
You actually do want him to call here. If you think that he'll still come along for a 200 raise, then it would definitely be best to raise that amount, but there's no need to raise up 3x his bet just to have him fold. You pick up ~80 chips that way which is hardly anything.

The flop is where the problem came. Yeah, there are no draws here but he might have a piece of it anyway. If he has nothing, he'll fold to any bet. But if he has something, you MUST make him pay to see that turn card.
I wouldn't object to a 200 chip bet here, but I agree that 300 is probably much better.