collusion (kinda long, but I need advice ASAP)

[bigdmajor]

In my weekly home game of fellow grad students, two brothers regularly display suspicious play. A school of thought is beginning to form in that they may be in collusion. They seem to raise / reraise until everyone is out of the pot and then one will fold to the other. Play like this should tell someone to leave and find a more friendly table, but these are our classmates and friends.

The situation has finally gotten to the point that a group of people are going to confront them next week. I think this is bad news. Accusing people in front of a group is only going to make them defensive and will draw "battle lines." Furthermore, I'm not totally convinced that they are in collusion. I think that it may be a coincidence and that they are just both loose aggressive.

I know that accusing someone of cheating is a big deal and I don’t know what to do.

Any advice?

[Richie Rich]

Privately tell one/both of the brothers that one of the other poker players is beginning to suspect collusion between them, since they keep raising/re-raising to drive others out of the pot. In turn, you've been told that this "suspicious person" might ask to see the brothers' hands to make sure it's not AA vs. 72o. If they think that someone is hot on their trail, they will slow it down...

ps~ there's no doubt in my mind that these brothers are colluding

[Warik]

Why don't one of you check-call them down when they go nuts and invoke the IWTSTH (I want to see that hand) rule?

This might very well be the first instance I've seen this rule used for what it was originally intended.

Collusion is obvious IMO. The "I love to cap every street" mindset and the "I always fold the river for one bet headsup in a big pot" mindset are mutually exclusive.

[Nelly]

If my brother and I sat down in a friendly college game we'd be accused of the same thing. We are hyper aggressive (compared to most home games) and we've played with each other for 10+ years. Like most long-time opponents one of us will often surrender a pot in what looks like a suspicious circumstance.

The only reason we aren't accused of colluding is most of our players have been playing with us for 10+ years and are in the same boat! Take two of us out and move us to another friendlier table though and I'd bet we'd get confronted.

They may be cheaters - they may not. I commend your keeping an open mind.

[Richie Rich]

(1) Grad students = no money = need money
(2) Brothers...
(3) Capping all streets and folding to one or two bets on the river is not admissable.

There's no doubt they're cheating...

[dcJohn]

1. If I had to give it odds, I'd put it at 9:1 that that they're colluding. It just reeks of it.

2. At best they might not realize that this kind of collusion is cheating and that it's grounds for getting you tossed out of a game (if you're lucky). I'd actually consider this in the realm of possibility since there are so many newbies to poker, and they might just think they've found a clever but acceptable angle to play.

[Nelly]

[ QUOTE ]
There's no doubt they're cheating...

[/ QUOTE ]
Well I suppose that settles it then.

[LetsRock]

First thing to do is to ask to see both hands when this happens. This is the exact reason for the rule to allow players to look at mucked hands. Do this a few times and you'll likely have your answer. If nothing else they'll stop doing it.

If they don't I'd unvite them or stop playing with them.

[random]

Sit out next week for some reason. Say you're too drunk or tired to play and offer to deal for the table. Grab their cards and check them under the table before you shuffle. If there was big money involved, this might get you shot, but it's better than confronting them and almost assuredly pissing someone off. If it's just a "friendly" home game, play like you don't know any better if they get mad at you for looking at their cards.

[bigdmajor]

Thnx all

These are all good suggestions but...

Despite my best efforts the group decided to vote next week to determine their "guilt" and they will confront them [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Not the peaceful resolution I was seeking, but I guess that's mob rule....

Think I'll be absent next week.