Good Stop-n-Go or Simply missed bets?

Shaun G · #1 09-14-2004, 07:22 AM

Thought I had put on a good play here, but in the end I think I simply missed out on a few bets.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

I normally prefer to only call pre-flop on a pair of pocket 10s multihanded, but felt that I should raise since I had position and the table was full of LPs.

Flop: (8.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

This was my flop, tried and true. At first, I thought calling might get me more big bets on the turn, but in hindsight, it may have simply cost me 2-3 additional small bets from UTG+1 and BB.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls.

River: (13.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 21.75 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has 2c 4c (full house, twos full of fours).
Hero has Th Ts (full house, tens full of twos).
Outcome: Hero wins 21.75 BB. 

Does the Stop-n-Go work to get more bets in on later streets, or is it better to go ahead and play strong the whole way?

Thanks
Shaun

Brian · #2 09-14-2004, 07:36 AM

Hi Shaun,

[ QUOTE ]
I normally prefer to only call pre-flop on a pair of pocket 10s multihanded, but felt that I should raise since I had position and the table was full of LPs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should raise 99% of the time with TT pre-Flop if it hasn't already been raised. It is the 6th best hand in Hold'em. I assume that you normally raise with hands like AQs, right? Well, TT is even better.

[ QUOTE ]
This was my flop, tried and true. At first, I thought calling might get me more big bets on the turn, but in hindsight, it may have simply cost me 2-3 additional small bets from UTG+1 and BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

This slowplay is actually fine. The pot isn't huge, and the board is very raggedy. You want to give people a chance to hit an overcard on the Turn that will commit them to a showdown, because they'll likely fold Axo for two bets on the Flop. However, if your opponents are extremely loose and/or aggressive, then I'd go ahead and raise the Flop and let them go nuts on me.

In this particular situation, you're correct, you would have collected a lot from UTG+1 no matter how you played it. But that won't always be the case.

Also, the way you played this hand isn't exactly a Stop-N-Go. It's just a slowplay. A Stop-N-Go is when you bet, get raised, and then bet again on the next street. For example:

You have ATo in the BB and it's folded to the CO who raises. You just call. The Flop is AT6, you bet, he raises, and you call. The Turn is an 8, and you bet again. This is a Stop-N-Go. It is a way of slowplaying that prevents your opponents from taking a free card against you, and sometimes it will actually collect you a lot more bets than you could have ever dreamed as you will wind up getting raised on two streets, and getting to 3-bet on the expensive one. If the opponent in this ATo hand had AK or AQ, he would likely wind up losing a bundle because he'd raise the Turn, only to get 3-bet, and be left calling down with 3 outs.

-Brian

Piiop · #3 09-14-2004, 07:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I normally prefer to only call pre-flop on a pair of pocket 10s multihanded, but felt that I should raise since I had position and the table was full of LPs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should always prefer to raise.

I would raise the flop. There's only 1 other player in the pot, so you're not concerned with forcing everyone to call 2 cold. The board is basically draw-free, so only the players with a piece of the board are going to stay. A scare card like an A or K may come on the turn and some with a weak T or little pair may just check-call or even check-fold instead of betting out again. The opponents with a T are going to call you down anyway, and if you happen to run into someone with 22, 44, or 24, then you can go raise crazy.

crockett · #4 09-14-2004, 07:41 AM

First of all, you should change your normal line and ALWAYS (or near always) raise TT.

Perfect example of, in my opinion, poor play. Don't be a slow player like they try to be. Some guy played complete crap (24s) against your raise and rolled up 2-pair. If you would have raised you probably would have lost BB for 1 SB (you'll never know) but surely UTG+1 would have 3-bet and you would have capped.

Then that beautiful turn card comes and the betting would still would proceed the same way.

So you lost out on 1.5BB for sure and possibly 2BB.

Play them hard and play them fast. I think there are times to slow play but this is not that time.

Just my thoughts...I'm no expert by any means.

Piiop · #5 09-14-2004, 07:52 AM

Hi crockett,

Try not to be so results oriented in your analysis. Rarely will you hit trips vs. an opponents 2-pair on board like this one. Try and explain why you think you should still raise when your opponent doesn't have 2 pair or a lower set.

crockett · #6 09-14-2004, 08:07 AM

lol.

Point is well taken, I will work on that skill. Thank you for the constructive critisism.

I'll just have them read your post as to why I think he should have raised the flop, it was well said.

Entity · #7 09-14-2004, 10:31 AM

I don't want UTG+1 to ever check this flop to me, so I like your line. If BB stays in and hits a weak draw, it becomes even more profitable. Raising the flop often lets you take control of a hand like this, and sometimes will cost you 1+ BB. In this case, it probably didn't matter, but I like your line overall.

I think you may be being a bit results oriented in thise case. If you're really up against a bunch of LP's, they are going to let you take control of the hand, and possibly check-call you down, the moment you show too much aggression. If you cap the flop, your hand looks like a monster, and you may trade the 2SB you gained from UTG+1 for 1 from BB and perhaps lose 1BB later as well.

It's hard to say, but generally when you aren't first to act, I like your line on this.

BTW, as others have said, you should be raising TT preflop pretty much all the time. It is a very +EV hand.

Rob

Piiop · #8 09-14-2004, 11:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want UTG+1 to ever check this flop to me,

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean check the turn to you? If you mean flop, I don't understand what you're saying.

Entity · #9 09-14-2004, 11:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't want UTG+1 to ever check this flop to me,

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean check the turn to you? If you mean flop, I don't understand what you're saying.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I meant turn.

It was 6:30AM and I hadn't finished my coffee yet. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Rob