9/18 at Commerce -- Chased everyone away

[Six_of_One]

I think I screwed this up, but hopefully someone can confirm it.

Playing 9/18 at Commerce, 8-handed at the moment. Everyone calls, and the button raises. I'm in the SB with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I call, as does the BB and everyone else. 8 players to the flop.

Flop: J Q 6, rainbow with 1 diamond (I don't remember which card). Checked to CO who bets, button raises. I call two bets, as do a couple other players. 5 players to the turn.

Turn: 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. This puts 2 hearts on the board.

Here is where I think I screwed it up. I checked. Everyone checked to the button, he bet, and I raised. Now everyone folded, and the button called reluctantly. The river was a blank, and the button folded to my bet.

Comments?

[CanKid]

I don't like the flop call.

[TonyBlair]

Nor me. You could have been drawing dead and still have the field to act behind you.
Once you've made your choice though, I think CR the turn was correct. There's enough in there already.

[Your Mom]

In this type of game with many people calling raises cold on the flop, he is correct to call the flop and draw to his gutshot.

The c/r is good. The pot is big and it sounds like people will go ahead and call two bets if they had anything worth calling one. Any flush draw or K would be wrong to fold here, so go ahead and make them pay. Ni han, sir.

[Six_of_One]

Hmm. I thought it was a pretty easy flop call. I have a gutshot along with a backdoor flush draw, and the pot is big. I'd be interested to hear other opinions, though.

[onegymrat]

Hi Six,

You are correct about the turn mistake. This is a clear bet, especially in first position. What was your reasoning for the check-raise? You might have even gotten raised.

The call on the flop is dubious though. You are calling two bets cold with a chance that it could get capped. Commerce remember? You are also behind to AK, so your only card for salvation could be a curse.

[Six_of_One]

When I raised the turn, what was going through my head was that it was a draw-heavy board, so I might get a couple players cold-calling. But I felt like it was a mistake pretty much the instant the chips were in the pot.

As for the flop call, perhaps I need to re-evaluate the way I've been playing flops lately. So far every response has agreed, which might tell me something. Maybe I didn't give enough weight to the possibility of having it come back to me capped. You would agree that I should call two bets if I was closer to closing the action, yes?

The 9/18 game was great, by the way. I've played a lot of 8/16 at the Bike this year, and I went there on Saturday night. At 10:00, they didn't have a single game going. I don't know what the problem is with that place. I went to Commerce, and when I got there they had 9 9/18 games running. Even at 5 AM they still had 3 games going. I think I'll be spending more time there in the near future.

[onegymrat]

Hi Six,

I told you to come over from the Bike months ago! Welcome to the jungle!

Your preflop call is certainly correct, with the "type" of players we normally see at Commerce, 8-handed and everyone is in. I am fairly sure I would have mucked it for two bets on the flop though. I'm not so concerned with closing the action, however. You were getting something like 9 to 1 by the time it got back to you for a gutshot. I know, I know, in Sklansky terms, your implied odds are huge! But to seek the monster under the bed, AK possibility is very real, and that would just ruin my high. I wouldn't want to cold-call (and possibly capped flop) and hit my out, only to lose to the nut straight. A king will make things even worse!

I didn't agree with your turn check-raise because not so much that it may get checked around, but because you found what you were looking for and now it's time to make them pay. Although at Commerce, two SBs cold to someone is often an enticement, two BBs cold will just do what a check-raise is intended to do from first position, drive them out. I would look to get raised some point on the turn and three-bet it.

I played from about 4 to 11 on Saturday night. Good stuff. My game started off fairly tough, but instead of changing seats right away, I knew the tougher players would leave by themselves, and an hour later, the game was a good as you can imagine. I made a run for three racks, but I was more than happy with two! Too many games, man, too many good games!

[Six_of_One]

It crossed my mind that the button could have AK since he raised pre-flop. However, once he raised the flop I didn't think it was very likely anymore. I'm basing this on my 8/16 experience, so it may or may not apply at Commerce, but most players would just call in that spot with AK. Still, folding may have been the right play. If it was a mistake, at least I didn't get punished for it, and those are my favorite kind of mistakes.

[elysium]

hi six of

it's hard to see, but you have just enough strength to drive-out reraise the flop. in any case, you must betout on the turn.

by the way, the call pre-flop is sub-optimal unless you play well enough to make the flop reraise.

you are a thinking player six, and tricky within reason. this is just enough talent to keep you losing less than most. it could be enough talent, however, to keep you alive until you click. you've got to sense the win and respond sharply to it here. in a slightly different array of action to you, a fold or call might be the right decision. not here though. you have a miserable hand, but it's a miserable hand that you can win with if you play it right. in this spot, you cannot back down. you must reraise.

you need to refresh. go back and reread hfap and top.