1/2 6max - 2nd pair TK on a paired flop

[deception5]

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In this case, I think that a raise means we're likely behind to a big PP, giving us enough outs to call the raise and re-evaluate on the turn. Assuming that the CO has reasonable pf-3betting standards (for 6 max), how often would you think he'd raise with just overcards here? FWIW, I used to give it a higher likelihood than I do now, and would give him credit for an overpair until proven otherwise (i.e., I was paying off too much against unknowns).

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On this particular board I think there's a reasonable chance he'd do this with AK.

[ClaytonN]

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6-max I'd autoraise this preflop.

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UTG and Hijack it's more dependant upon table texture. CO and button it's an autoraise.

For me, Ax (where x is between 6 and 9) sooted is best when you know you aren't getting coldcallers from the button or the cutoff. I'm not a big fan of playing that kind of hand OOP unless I hit. You can pull this off a lot easier with a weaker, tighter opposition though.

[afk]

Hey Clayton,

Against typical 1/2 short players (at least on Party and anywhere else I've played) I raise A8s pretty much every time here. Sure it can be weird playing it without position but I think the hand is too strong to pass up especially when you consider the junk you'll get called with. Occasionally they'll cold call with something like JJ or TT or whatever and you'll be in trouble, but you'll usually get 3bet by very strong hands in which case postflop becomes much easier to play.

[Redd]

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This is something I've been thinking about alot lately, and a good example for discussing this play. I try to do this all the time, but how often does the CO have to have a worse hand when he raises for it to be profitable? I'm getting the growing impression that a raise means we're beat too often for this to be a 'standard' play without a laggy read.

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I've been wondering about this as well. What about check/calling the flop and leading the turn? Easy fold to a raise.

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I agree that on this board there's a decent chance he'd raise the flop with AK. I think a turn donklead does the job, as does a flop c/r since it's unlikely he'll 3-bet with overs. It seems like we pay the same amount either way, and face the third guy with the same amount of bets either way, but C/Ring bloats the pot a little bit. Is there any reason you chose a turn donk over a flop c/r?

[Redd]

I'm going to send out an open request to Shillx for one of his trademark mini-essays about 'Leading into the preflop raiser for protection with a weak made hand.' This seems like a great topic for one. I'll even get you started:

"There are three reasons why you would want to lead into the pfr here..." [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Reqtech]

From the replies, it seems like a better line to take is to bet into the pf raiser. I can deal with that.

What would be the best followup? Calling down from there, donk-betting on the turn and folding to a raise?

[@bsolute_luck]

i don't think we have to have a "Laggy read" as i remember when i first came to the boards (i haven't heard much with this line since then), but the classic "free card" play (i usually hate it).

but on this flop i don't care if he does get a free card but i do want to get SB out of the hand, and we have 5 outs in a big pot against smaller pocket pairs and WA of UI Ax combos.

i hate c/r 'cause it ties SB to the pot, i don't want control in my position of this hand especially if i'm behind, the c/r may scare a premium hand into calling down. i'd rather not be in the driver's seat of this hand.

the turn donkbet is a thought, but i figured the flop donkbet because OC could risk the extra SB now in this big pot and i'd rather have SB out of the hand.