beating the ultra loose game

[jaydoggie]

glad to see alot of points made here. to homer, no i dont think his hand was worth staying in for, however that exactly what he was waiting for was a second pair, and thats what i figured him for but what more can i do but keep raising?

anyhow my bankroll took a hit this weekend at 60BB :\ ouch.

i still have a whole lot to learn and i'll be the first to admit it. now i have a new perspective of this type of game, thanks for the info.

[Ed Miller]

...you keep bringing river cards like that. Try a 2 next time... or a 5... or an A.. or whatever. But the 7 was just about your worst option...

[AceHigh]

I would've folded 97 on the flop.

[I am Money]

As stated, your bankroll swings will be much bigger.

If you want to get an idea of how big your swings will be... try playing at the tightest Paradise Poker Play Money tables. About 65% see the flop. A good number of the hands play out similarly to ultra-loose 2-4.

[Dynasty]

The pot was large and I'm not as quick to assume that a 7, 8, or 9 won't be good as most people are.

[Louie Landale]

Here's a bit of unintuitive truth: just because the weak hand is justified in calling because the pot is big doesn't mean the good hand is losing money. No, the good hand is MAKING money and in the long run the bad hand is losing money. If you bet as a 3:1 favorite and I call as a 3:1 dog, YOU are making a half a bet every time that happens. Just because you are happy I called if its a small pot and wish I had folded in a big pot doesn't matter much. So in the long run you need to play hands that become the favorite more often than not, which are the hands chosen by "selective" players.

Loose passive games are a synch (cinch?). Play somewhat selectively before and on the flop, then flail away mindlessly with most of the hands you want to play. By the time you figure out you are beat the pot is so big you end up paying it off. So be it. If you win 30% of your hands against 4 people you are way ahead of the game.

The loose aggressive games become much more of a problem. You need to play VERY selectively and can, in fact, never bet.

You need to let go of the notion that you can accurately predict the player's hands and can therefore know whether or not you are going to win.

Compared to a "real" game change your thinking: you "let" them give you their money more, and "extract" it less.

- Louie

[bernie]

what turn card isnt a scare card here? even if your in the lead...

youre going to call this down? please...

that's a long way to go with bottom pair and a crap kicker.

if you really think your 9 is good, how about a 3 bet? knock out some overcards on the flop. this isnt a calling situation here. but odds are, with 2 players active, youre behind

b

[SoBeDude]

I have a semi-private game like this that I sruggle with as well. And mine is worse I think because it plays 12-handed with a school of fish.

And I really think you're underestimating the implied collusion when you raise UTG and get 7 callers. If the flop doesn't smack you, you're behind. period. And even if you're ahead with your top pair, you have 7 people drawing to straights, flushes, sets, and two pair that you're not an odds-favorite to win the hand.

These people will call two cold like they're in the small blind and putting in half a bet instead of two. (3 bets will fold most of them though)

Come fly down to Miami. I'd be happy to introduce you to the best/worst game of 10-20 in the world!

Stange. I always ask how a good player can't beat these games. The simple answer is to value bet a lot.

I can't help but take this comment as a condescending attitude. There is no way a simle "value bet a lot" statement can beat my game. If you can beat it, its because you use every last trick, every last piece of know-how and hand reading skill you have.

And value betting doesn't prevent 7 people from sucking out on you smarty.

Don't trivialize how to play a game like this. Perhaps you've never really played in one?

And yes, when the cards are running good, I can run over this game. And when they're not, the game runs over me. I challence you to do any better.

Come to miami. And put your money where your mouth is.

And going 5 bets with 2 pair seems excessive to me as well.

-Scott

[lil']

That game sounds crazy!

You said one thing that I found interesting, though...
If you can beat it, its because you use every last trick, every last piece of know-how and hand reading skill you have.

I always have found that playing in these types of games greatly discourage trickery. In an 8 hour session I may try to steal 2 pots and be successful once. Being fancy in these games is death.

[SoBeDude]

I don't mean trick to imply bluff.

I mean trick as every last weapon in your poker arsenal, implying it takes every last ounce of your ability to beat it.

-Scott